How did the Saloon Happen?

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Foscolo

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 05:19:56 AM »
A beacon of civilised good cheer and amicable chat, and always well worth stopping by even for those like me who no longer have much connection with China. In fact, I didn't even join until after I'd left China. Unfortunately I didn't know about it when I was there.
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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2010, 05:29:02 AM »


If you ARE a new kid, you can do it. All ya gotta do is talk. :surfing:

I plan to do a LOT of question asking as my latest trip to China takes shape.  uuuuuuuuuu

It's a shame that you don't see a way back into China for the immediate future Raoul, it's clear that the country has gotten into your bloodstream, and that you're destined to be a China-watcher forever more.

Best to your mammy.
两只老外, 两只老外,跑得快,跑得快,
一个是老酒鬼,一个是老色鬼,真奇怪, 真奇怪

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Nolefan

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2010, 06:15:31 AM »
I personally blame Stil for my being here and everything that ensued after that.

I was aware of the Saloon when i first moved to China but had issues with proboards, the forum provider they used. I had worked with them/for them in a previous life and left with a sour taste in my mouth... i just didn't care to use them or contribute to their income.

I met Stil when he came to my first bootcamp back in 2005 and we stayed in touch then one day he sent me an email saying that some folks on a forum were asking questions about bootcamp. I decided to check it out and loved it so i stayed!
The saloon turned out to be a nice community that was the epitome of everything good that the internet could offer and i loved that aspect of it. I stayed on board even after i stopped teaching and when we got blocked, I couldn't let it all go to waste so I jumped in and offered my help.

the rest is, as they say, history!

I dispute Raoul's version of the "coup d'etat"  afafafafaf because as far as i'm concerned, we prevented a revolution that would have taken the forums down roads i didn't care to see it go aoaoaoaoao and kept it true to itself!
alors régressons fatalement, eternellement. Des débutants, avec la peur comme exutoire à l'ignorance et Alzheimer en prof d'histoire de nos enfances!
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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2010, 01:36:04 PM »
we prevented a revolution that would have taken the forums down roads i didn't care to see it go aoaoaoaoao and kept it true to itself!

Well, yeah, OK...that we did. But I think "staged a coup d'etat" sounds more romantic-like. bzbzbzbzbz

And really, if you think about it and dig deep enough, is there ANYTHING we can't ultimately blame on Stil? mmmmmmmmmm
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2010, 04:55:16 AM »
The Gospel according to Con

I was spending my first year in China, in a mining town with a laowai population of one.  ananananan  I'd gotten my job courtesy of the Spoon (mind, back then they weren't charging schools to advertise jobs, so no one would be able to score the kind of small mom-and-pop school gig I did now), and hung around in their chat rooms- I didn't even know what a forum was.  It was Woz from Oz who alerted me and my room of the Saloon's existence.

This place saved my life.  My school didn't tell me much about China's reality- they'd have a couple of teachers bolt, one from the puppetry of a Chinese girlfriend- so I was a babe in the woods.  Raoul signed me up very quickly, and on I went.

The place had only been up for 3 months at that point, and I believe there were fewer than 40 members at the time.  But the atmosphere was terrific: I read for a day, then posted my introduction.  Instantly everyone answered in droves.  I asked questions, read the Library threads, and learned more in 2 days than the previous 4 months I'd been in the Big Silly.  Most importantly, I now had a big stable of friends who had no stake in making money off of me, who could steer me right.

Over the years, I think if you graphed the membership by percent monthly growth, you'd get a staple rising line.  There is a mortality rate to members: some don't like it here, most just leave China and trail off.  But these have always been more than offset by new people.  At some point the Saloon climbed onto the first page on Google, and then the number of hits exploded... as did the membership requests.  At this point we have to express the rate of would-be joiners PER DAY! axaxaxaxax

I remember the Alamo period a little differently: there were nasty words, then Raoul walked- let the bitchers and moaners do it their way.  The guy who took over, well, I didn't like how he was running things- many didn't- so I assured some folks who were ready to walk that a new site was under construction.  I was abruptly banned for this sedition.  Fortunately, Nolefan was running the ones and zeroes, so the word got out.  The new site came up, the other guy left and we started over... again.  

This was an amazing time.  We went with the same layout, with the rooms in the same order, and everybody set to rebuilding the threads and info.  We cut and pasted from the old site, rewrote the best advice spots, constructed a New Saloon TOGETHER.  It was miraculous: there was no acrimony or rancour; each of us just logged on, looked through the site, found a hole where stuff should be, then started it off from scratch.  The community got together and raised a barn.

The scale of the Saloon is now so much huger than that hole in the wall speakeasy I wandered into 6 years ago.  
- 500 members, Jeebus!  
- The Links section, already when I joined the best one on the web, is gigantic.  
- Saloon policy for years was that we shouldn't bother posting too much teacher info, as there were plenty of much more thorough and voluminous sites already on it; but just through members exchanging posts, the Saloon's content grew, and now I for one frequently look through what others have posted when I feel short of ideas for class.  I figure we're soon to turn a corner and step up as a major player in the free ESL resource site.
- Check out the recipe section.  Some member will one day organize it into one helluva Chinese cookbook.
- The School Info site used to work in tandem with Nate's China School Review, which existed specifically as a forum to give info on Chinese schools, but the founder left China and naturally moved on to other projects.  The Saloon is now the largest independent (read: answers to no school) repository of Chinese ESL school reviews online.  This continues to grow.
- As a travelogue, the Saloon never meant to compete with Lonely Planet, and we still don't... much.  They have the money and the scale, but we as a non-profit online board can update info far faster than a paper book ever could.  As you can't ask a book a new question...
- The womenfolk requested a private room to discuss XX stuff, and got it.  We XYs later set up our own.  And via PM there are even more private nooks where we can enjoy communication without the peanut gallery when needed.
- Best of all, the membership itself provides a HUGE resource to everyone.  When, after 6 months hiatus back home, I returned to China, then got stranded in Beijing, we set a record for most members online (since broken), as everyone checked in to see how I was getting on.  We had a member in terrible condition who need to get home; we rounded up money, shepherded her from the South all the way onto a plane at Pudong Airport, handing her off through several members along the way like a mailbag through the Pony Express.  We had a member stuck in a small town university being PHYSICALLY threatened by the uni's Mr. Burns, and got him safely out.  There are too many examples of how we've watched each other's asses.  Add to that all the couch surfing, joint travels and vacations, advice warnings, and we are truly blessed a mutual blessing society.

Feel free to add to this list, guys.

And the future?  Well, we've lost some charms of a village in exchange for growing into a town, and are in the process now of becoming a city.  It's hard to follow ever post now; a few days away and the reading awaiting you is staggering.  There are, not cliques exactly, but little groups that are gelling.  And with a larger population come a higher incidence of conflicts.

I'm not concerned.  We're getting better at labelling threads to indentify their content, so it's easy for me, for example, to skip the Fluff, Footie and Cookbook threads and horn in on the Hockey, Teaching and New threads; so I'm not so intimidated by the sheer volume of material here now.  The members may have smaller circles, but we still all mix with others.  Sure, there are people who don't like each other, but there's plenty of room to avoid each other, like any big-assed bar.  And the conflicts get pointed out, then gentle bouncers separate the combatants until heads cool down.

The Future

I'm eager to hear ideas and predictions of what the future will hold for our beloved watering hole.  I have some:

- The Links will keep us in the hub of all things Sino.

- As I said, I foresee professional rooms becoming a BIG deal.  The teaching threads are a little treasure trove, and with a little organisation I could easily see us start to paste our lesson plans here, free to the world.

- Perhaps the school reviews will keep pace or even gain ground on the gigantic piles of English schools throughout China, and the Saloon will come to present an informal standard of conduct among schools... and foreign teachers.

- I'd love to see other professions- management, engineering, music, graphic design, the list is endless- establishing industry-specific areas.  It could start with links and discussion, then evolve into entire rooms as teaching has.

- Raoul has long championed a Jukebox function, wherein members could play tunes right off this site.  It's turned out to be a huge headache in the doing (don't ask me why- computer stuff's way over this monkey's head), but the notion hasn't died.

- 'Twould be great if a member moved to another Asian country and started Molly Hatchett's Thai Saloon.  We'd sure be here for moral, technical and content support.

- We've had a few stabs at collaborative fiction and textbook writing, but so far to my knowledge no actual product has come of it.  That doesn't mean it won't...

- And what about a printed Raoul?  Big publishing potential...
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task. -William James

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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2010, 01:08:51 PM »
Beautiful, Con. Thanks. akakakakak

Quote
The guy who took over
didn't take over. He only tried to. ayayayayay
The Saloon is largely a technological phenomenon...and you can't really fight the guys (Nolefan and myself) who control the technology. uuuuuuuuuu

NateM didn't leave China for long. He's in Tianjin, running the major expat site for that city. We still communicate, and he lurks here occasionally.

A published version? Yeah, someday. It's percolating in the back of my mind. Possible title: A Fridge-full of Donkey-Meat Dumplings.

Or possibly A Tyranny of Chinese Women.
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

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gonzo

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2010, 03:30:37 PM »
Beautiful, Con. Thanks. akakakakak

Quote
The guy who took over
didn't take over. He only tried to. ayayayayay


As a then-involved, but bipartisan member of the admin at that time, I had seen this coming as inevitably as WWII, and just as unavoidable. Two larger than life characters: intelligent, passionate, personable, funny, compassionate, but seemingly unable to exist in the same room.
I still count them both as friends, and they've both got a bed in my Australian abode any time, as long as sharing with an 18 year old Korean isn't an issue.
I guess the main thing to remember is that the psuedonymonic [ aoaoaoaoao] Raoul and Hamish were the visionaries who started the whole thing.
RIP Phil Stephens.
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Ruth

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2010, 04:06:33 PM »
I like the 'fridge' title, Raoul. 

Excellent histories from Raoul, Con and Nolefan.  I'd like to add a small piece of the picture that's not been mentioned in this thread and might be worth resurrecting.  Obtaining English reading material was a huge issue for me during my years in the hinterland.  I once bought every one of those little green booklets that the local store had to offer.  You know the ones that have the classics really simplified with English on one side and Chinese on the other.  Read them all in one afternoon.  That's desperation.  Enter a Saloonie who offered to share/trade books through the mail.  What a joy to receive a box of books!  akakakakak  Very little expense to send off my 'finished with' books to someone else.  I'm no longer desperate, as I've since imported several suitcases of reading material, plus have regular trips to Hong Kong and Guangzhou where one can actually purchase English books, but there might be members 'out there' in need/want of something new to read.  I'm willing to share.  Think I'll start a thread.
If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat.

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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2010, 03:39:18 PM »
I'd never want to underestimate the role that Hamish played here. He was indeed a spark that helped get this dog's head started. The animosity wasn't really my idea, and I deeply regret that it's there. alalalalal

they've both got a bed in my Australian abode any time, as long as sharing with an 18 year old Korean isn't an issue.

Uh...male or female? Makes a considerable difference, ya know. afafafafaf
(Ummmm...I'm talking about the Korean. I was fairly sure about Hamish. bpbpbpbpbp )
Either way, I sincerely hope I can avail myself of that bed offer some fine day. akakakakak
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

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Escaped Lunatic

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2010, 03:41:35 PM »
Raoul and Hamish caught in bed with 18 year old Korean boy!
Film at 11.
 ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
I'm pro-cloning and we vote!               Why isn't this card colored green?
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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2010, 03:46:05 PM »
Oh, hush. I prefer to move forward and not dwell on the past. ahahahahah
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

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gonzo

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2010, 03:51:07 PM »
As a general trend in the international student scene:
Koreans, 100% female.
Japanese, 80% female.
Chinese, 80% male, and what dags they are!

Our boarding enterprise is strictly girls at the moment. A little bit easier to manage.
But Raoul, you never know your luck!!

BTW, "dag" refers to a pellet of dried sheep faeces stuck on the animal's rear wool. In human terms, it means unattractive in all senses of the word.
RIP Phil Stephens.
No static at all.

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Escaped Lunatic

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2010, 03:57:04 PM »
So the official Saloon retirement plan is to host hot young asian girls in your house?!?!  We'd better keep that quiet or we'll have 500,000 members tomorrow.  ahahahahah
 
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gonzo

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2010, 05:14:44 PM »
Well, it earns us $3500 AUD a month.
Hot?? Not really. Have you taught in a middle school?
RIP Phil Stephens.
No static at all.

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Escaped Lunatic

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Re: How did the Saloon Happen?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2010, 11:52:59 AM »
USA middle school for 1 year.  I'm told another decade of over-volted electroshock therapy might make me forget at least some of it, if I'm lucky.  kkkkkkkkkk

Is there something wrong with your students?  Most 18 year old Korean girls have at least made it out of middle school?  ahahahahah
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