Help re: Nationality

  • 37 replies
  • 9590 views
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2008, 02:33:38 AM »
offtopic i know.

But con do u pay uk/eu fees coz u own property in eu? This interests me coz im going to uni in  uk in october.

Im not sure what ill be paying. Havent lived in the uk for 16 years.

That would definitely strengthen your case.
It is too early to say.

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2008, 02:42:33 AM »
Uhmm..guys, don't you think we should start a seperate thread for this?
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

*

Raoul F. Duke

  • Lovable Rogue
  • *****
  • 9569
  • "Be specific if you order the mushrooms!"
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2008, 08:51:17 AM »
You've gotten a lot of good info above.

China indeed does not allow dual citizenships.

But you definitely- definitely- want your child to have citizenship outside China. If nothing else, it will make matters much easier when you decide to leave China.

And you WILL want to leave China. Sadly, as I have found out the hard way, having a child means that sooner or later, you must  leave China.

Why?

1) Medical care here is disgraceful. Unreliable and inhumane.

2) The schools here are just awful. In addition to the rote-memorization-of-facts-you-can-never-question approach to education that we all come to know and love so much, schoolchildren here are subjected to horrendous loads of Party blather and anti-foreign propaganda. You want your kid coming home one day with one of those stupid red neckerchiefs around their neck? Of course not.

3) As a foreigner, it will be quite expensive and difficult for you to educate your child. Without a hukou, you'll have to pay through the nose to get them into school...there is no free education in China, and ESPECIALLY not for you and me and our kids. You will most likely be able to place your child into the so-called "noble schools" with the kids of the rich and well-connected. Not cheap...certainly not for you. WITH a hukou, your kid can go to the regular schools at a somewhat lower cost...but only in the city where the hukou is registered. A hukou very much ties you to your home town- indeed, this is its very purpose- and is not easy or cheap to change.

4) Your child will be subjected to relentless discrimination- by the homeys and especally by their schoolmates. My own child- who turns 4 next week as of this writing- is already beginning to get some of this in the schoolyard. You want to hear your child wishing they had a Chinese father like all the other kids?
I sure didn't.

5) Chinese society is rotten to the core. Corruption permeates everything  here...there's no escaping it. Chinese grow up accepting this as simply the way things are, and an OK way for the world to be. I for one do NOT want my child growing up to believe these things.
An illustrative story: One day late in 2007 I was having a conversation (in Chinese) with my wife and our ayi. The housekeeper helpfully reminded me that I had better be sure to give my child's teacher a nice red envelope for Spring Festival with at least 800 RMB in it- else the teacher may not give the child enough to eat in the school cafeteria, or watch after her well enough to keep her safe and happy.
I simply don't want my child growing up to be part of a society where you have to bribe a nursery-school teacher to provide enough food to fill the belly of a 4-year-old. And I will wager that you don't either.

But, you say, aren't there pretty good international schools, and special Western-style hospitals with real doctors and stuff?
Sure there are...most larger cities in China offer these things. But you will find that even an upper-end English teacher's salary will not grant you access to these things. Go price a true international school some time and find out what I'm talking about. Even most of the managers, engineers, diplomats, etc. that send their kids to these schools don't pay these costs themselves...it comes as a bennie from their employers. The good hospitals, meanwhile, charge prices comparable to the costs of medical care in the USA...and as in the USA, no one can afford the care unless they have terribly expensive medical insurance. (NOTE- please don't confuse a Western-style hospital with the "VIP clinic" at the regular local hospitals. They're not the same thing. Most "VIP clinics" offer the same shoddy care that the homeys get, but it comes from a local doctor who speaks a little bad English.)

China can be a marvelous place to move to and live in as an adult. But you don't want to grow up here...and you don't want your child to grow up here.

Please get your child citizenship in your home country- while the getting's good.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2008, 09:03:30 AM by Raoul Duke »
"Vicodin and dumplings...it's a great combination!" (Anthony Bourdain, in Harbin)

"Here in China we aren't just teaching...
we're building the corrupt, incompetent, baijiu-swilling buttheads of tomorrow!" (Raoul F. Duke)

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2008, 01:38:45 PM »
I taught at an international preschool.  Base tuition was Y8,400 a year.  aoaoaoaoao
And there is no liar like the indignant man... -Nietszche

Nothing is so fatiguing as the eternal hanging on of an uncompleted task. -William James

englishmoose.com

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2008, 03:37:48 PM »
I taught at an international preschool.  Base tuition was Y8,400 a year.  aoaoaoaoao

8400 RMB?  or USD?  8400 RMB is actually bloody cheap for an international school.  They usually charge in the region of 150,000 RMB per year, comparable with the elite private schools in England.

Raoul's post was spot on, although wrong about one thing: the Chinese government has just introduced universal free education (albeit at the bog standard chinese schools).

Still, otherwise it was a very good post, not much to add.

I've got a friend with a Chinese wife who has just moved BACK from the UK to China because she's finding the UK too expensive.  They've got two kids now and say they are planning to stay out here the rest of their lives.  aoaoaoaoao

I tried telling her how crazy that was, but she wasn't having any of it.

Also, think of things like parkland, etc there's so much more for kids to do in the UK, and simple things like the little support groups everywhere.  Decent kids' libraries.  When I was in blighty last summer I took thomas to this weekly thing at the local library which was essentially similar to the classes at our local kindy here in china, but it was free.  The UK is full of things like that, as well as loads of excellent free or cheap things.  It's just the cost of housing which is exorbitant.  If I can find a way round that the UK winds hands down really.

It is too early to say.

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2008, 03:38:44 PM »
Raoul, the friend in question's wife was trying to tell me a few months back that the healthcare in China was *better* than in the UK.  I nearly died of laughter.
It is too early to say.

*

Lotus Eater

  • 7671
  • buk-buk..b'kaaaawww!
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2008, 04:06:18 PM »
Quote
the Chinese government has just introduced universal free education (albeit at the bog standard chinese schools).

There is free and there is free.  Books and resources still cost money for parents.  For FTs here - maybe not so big a deal - but for my rural friends, my nomad mates - this is still a contributing factor to NOT sending kids to school. 

You still have to figure what is most important for your child. I'd still go with a foreign passport.  You also don't know what will happen 5-10 years down the track, and it may be way more difficult to get British/American/Oz citizenship.  Britain is now cracking down on the 'grandfather' clause for "colonials' - so ...

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2008, 05:16:20 PM »
Yes, and australia is now making it virtually impossible for us poms to settle there too.  asasasasas asasasasas asasasasas
It is too early to say.

*

George

  • *
  • 6134
    • My view of China
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2008, 05:29:43 PM »
Yes, and australia is now making it virtually impossible for us poms to settle there too.  asasasasas asasasasas asasasasas

Well, that's a good thing! ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
The higher they fly, the fewer!    http://neilson.aminus3.com/

*

Lotus Eater

  • 7671
  • buk-buk..b'kaaaawww!
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2008, 05:49:48 PM »
Yes, and australia is now making it virtually impossible for us poms to settle there too.  asasasasas asasasasas asasasasas

And about time too!  Look at all the trouble you get us into.
Boer War
WWI (especially Gallipoli!)
WWII
Korean War
Malay Emergency
Indonesian Confrontation

And you tossed your crims and political prisoners at us for years.

Then we gave you free or assisted passage to come live with us, provided housing, work etc. 

We have been more than generous - and you still want us to give you money every year and every visit Liz and her dysfunctional family make to us.

And because we are a sweet and generous nation - we have endured this for the last 200+ year.  Fair go, mate! bfbfbfbfbf

 axaxaxaxax axaxaxaxax axaxaxaxax axaxaxaxax axaxaxaxax


Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2008, 06:15:34 PM »
Yeah but we invented you.
It is too early to say.

*

Lotus Eater

  • 7671
  • buk-buk..b'kaaaawww!
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2008, 06:17:12 PM »
Tell that to the Aborigines! They figure you invaded.

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2008, 06:28:21 PM »
I knew this was the place to ask this question. Thanks again everyone.
You all raised some great points and I think i'll stick my original plan with my son being an Irish citizen. Was considering home schooling for him anyway (to avoid the propaganda, memorizing and the unreasonable amount of study the kids have to endure) but that's a topic for another day I think.
Also, that was an eye-opener Raoul;having to bribe a school teacher!! I'm actually not that agaist bribery, it's the way of the world, but that is taking it too far. And I'm sure that was a kick in the 'nads when your kid wished you where Chinese but thanks for prepairing me.
Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore always carry a small snake.  W.C. Fields
Admiration for a quality or an art can be so strong that it deters us from striving to possess it. Nietzsche

*

Lotus Eater

  • 7671
  • buk-buk..b'kaaaawww!
Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2008, 06:30:25 PM »
I think it is a much safer choice. agagagagag

Re: Help re: Nationality
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2008, 06:48:10 PM »
Also China has always been such an unstable country.  I know the western media is crowing about the place now, but I wouldn't be exactly shocked if in 15 years there was suddenly a revolution and all laowais were hunted down and killed.  Imagine trying to get a half chinese kid out of the country quickly in such a situation.  It doesn't bear thinking about.
It is too early to say.