Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????

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Motzie

Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« on: April 26, 2007, 01:39:32 PM »
Recently there was a debate on the local radio here in Townsville 'discussing' the ban of smoking in cars with children. Apparenlty there is a move to make it illegal to smoke in a car with children. While I agree with the idea behind it, how far should laws invade our personal lives? I already have issues with the amount of legislation being passed taking the responsibility away from an individual and placing it in the hands of the law, scares me that people want our governement to govern every aspect of their lives. Gives way for a modern day dictatorship or worse.... Am I ranting the worng point here?? I get yelled down big time here whenever I speak my mind, any thoughts guys??

Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2007, 03:27:11 PM »
I'm generally against any kind of legislation - but strangely ok with this one. Kids can't protect themselves, especially if they have ignorant parents, so every little bit helps.

I'm with you on the rest of it.

Back in my policeman days I was constantly getting into trouble for never writing enough traffic tickets (when I was wearing the pretty uniform). We were told we should be writing 20-50 traffic tickets a week (the public was told there was no quota system in place). I wrote 6 tickets in my whole police career - and every one of them was for offences involving kids in cars - usually because the kids were prancing around without seatbelts, or stupid parent was driving dangerously with the kids in the car. I would have beaten them with my nightstick if I could have gotten away with it.
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kcanuck

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2007, 03:47:15 PM »
ah yes, the old "there are no quotas."
My brother smokes with his kids in the car and it pisses me off big time.  I agree with the nice non ticket-issuing officer, kids can't protect themselves.   
Back home they're discussing banning smoking in apartment buildings and condos because of the second hand smoke issue.  I anticipate there will be a heated debate over that one.
I am still learning. Michelangelo

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icebear

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2007, 04:48:03 PM »
I think the issue is rising more and more not because of the safety of children, but the costs of public health care. People are expecting, neigh, demanding the government shoulder more and more of its citizens' health care costs... so of course an interest will be taken in improving public health in a preventative way via legislation. The other solution is discriminatory pricing by health insurance companies, which exists already, and many people bitch about as being 'unfair'. Either expect less frills (or more expenses) from your health care system, or shut up and toss out that pack of smokes.

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Mr Nobody

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2007, 06:00:55 PM »
Icebear said it just right.
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.

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Nolefan

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2007, 07:19:58 PM »

it's such a pandora's box to open... there is the issue of Children's health and the fact that they can't really fend for themselves. definitely!!! I'd be in favor of such a law.

Their reason for passing such a law is another story... I don't think they care about kids health as much as they do care about rising healthcare costs. The insurance companies are  pressuring governments to even ban cigarettes
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Raoul F. Duke

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2007, 10:41:04 PM »
I'm both a father and a smoker.

I've always been very sensitive with regards to exposing my daughters to cigarette smoke.

When I was in the car with them, I always kept a window cracked open and held my cigarette outside, letting my exhaust vent out of the car. When the smoke couldn't be vented out for some reason (like cold out and the car not moving), I wouldn't smoke.

Should I be ticketed/arrested/pistol-whipped for this?
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decurso

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2007, 01:11:07 AM »
My hometown recently passed a law banning designated smoking rooms in all bars.THIS is a violation of civil liberties.I agree non-smokers have a right to a smoke-free enviornment.But there is no way anyone can convince me that this law is going to do anything to reduce health care costs.It is another eample of the goernent harassing the smokers instead of the real culprits...tobacco comapnies.

 But the law about not smoking in a car with kids?Nothing wrong with that IMO.

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Lotus Eater

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 02:30:43 AM »
I'm partial to the odd glass or two of red and champagne.  jjjjjjjjjj agagagagag But when planning on getting pregnant, and during the whole pregnancy I didn't drink alcohol.  My children's heath was way more important than my desire to imbibe.  People coming to our house would smoke outside - including my parents.  I didn't want my kids lungs to have to cope with any more toxins than they absolutely had to.  I figured accumulation is a slow process and where I could, I tried to slow that accumulation down.

Mothers can be sued in the US for foetal alcohol syndrome - it will only be time before the first case is brought against parents for causing asthma or lung disease via 2nd hand smoking.  And I can see why bar staff would say - don't want to work in the smoking room.

In Oz all Gov't buildings, cars, lifts etc have no smoking regs, and I think now all public buildings - including hotels, bars and discos have the same.  Even to the extent of preventing Gov't workers who smoke from doing so within a certain distance of the entrances and exits.

Could take a while longer in China - although I have now been to a few restaurants where there are NO Smoking signs prominently psoted - and seeming obeyed!!

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icebear

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 05:50:59 AM »
I have now been to a few restaurants where there are NO Smoking signs prominently psoted - and seeming obeyed!!

When pigs fly!

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Mr Nobody

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 06:06:51 AM »
Well, Icebear, I know some Chinese geneticists working with porcine and vulture DNA and they have just created a.....



Did I hear someone say 'bullpoo'?


Fair call.
Just another roadkill on the information superhighway.

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decurso

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 08:19:23 PM »
I guess what bugs me is the hypocritical way governments take money from big tobacco and then turn around and pass anti-smoking legislation.It sends kind of a mixed message doesn't it?

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Lotus Eater

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2007, 10:50:57 AM »
Gov't has two options about stuff - either legislate against it, or make the price so high that people don't want to pay.  The latter is way better because they can collect the taxes from the price hikes. The former requires extra policing - costs money!  Latter is sensible to me. In Oz even for private health care gov't is picking up a substantial amount of the cost, and for public health care - the whole lot.  if you have to pay for thse costs - why shouldn't you charge as much as the market will bear and toss the funds into caring for the damage that is caused by the action??

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woza

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Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2007, 11:55:03 PM »
I think that smoking should be banned totally.   If tobacco was introduced today it would not pass the drug laws.   Draconian yes.  But instead have a better drug to replace it.  Something less harmful.  I think the goverments of the world should work on producing better drugs for the masses.
I would be up for that.
Chees Woza

Re: Is it taking away our civil liberty or not????
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2007, 12:55:58 AM »
I hear you, Woza, but you can't make stupid decisions illegal.  Elseways, you'll have other people dixtating to you how to live your life.  Everyone should have the right to be wrong. yyyyyyyyyy

Have you ever noticed that smokers and drinkers are the coolest people to talk to?  I credit the social aspect to them.

I miss smoking for the comraderie of lighting up with others: even if we're strangers, even if seperated by language, we know the score.

I miss drinking even more.

EDIT:  Sorry, Woza, should have read your post through.  I'm all for cigarettes that don't kill you.  I think we'd outlive non-smokers.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2007, 01:01:37 AM by Con ate dog »
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