Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The BS-Wrestling Pit => Topic started by: Calach Pfeffer on December 15, 2011, 12:32:49 AM
-
Really, you would?
Twice this happened this evening, within minutes of each other. Were they laying in wait? I thought the "catch every opportunity" school of language learning had already died its justly deserved death some years ago. Perhaps there is a test coming up.
In closing... don't catch every opportunity.
Alternatively, let's make a deal: do you have a sister?
-
Really, you would?
Alternatively, let's make a deal: do you have a sister?
ahahahahah bkbkbkbkbk
-
Perhaps there is a test coming up.
Yep. CET 4 and 6 are this Saturday.
-
Oh, it's you! I'm so glad to meet you! You know, I've heard so much about you. Does your mom still have the army boots I gave her?
-
Whenever I see Chinese people on the street back here in the US I have to hold myself back from going up to them and asking stupid questions in extremely basic (and of course broken) Chinese. It would just be so self satisfying.
-
When i am in Canada i like to point at them and call them lao wai bjbjbjbjbj
-
I don't know what goes on in their minds, and I wish I didn't have to think about it at all. I mean, I am old enough to be these lumps of youth's father and this confers NO ADVANTAGE AT ALL! To respect me is to stand in my way in the street and blurt out inane, thoughtless "conversation"? Were it even conversation it might potentially be forgivable, but whoever thought up "catch every opportunity" probably also wrote the book on "hey man" and didn't teach these retards how to have an opinion worth hearing.
I dislike it all because I don't want to be the one telling some largely harmless kid to... welcome me into the family home.
ETA: I kind of worry that it leaves little timebombs of disappointed, aggravated, savant-like reaction lying around the campus. I'm recognisable, they're not, but they're ones who got cursorily plowed aside from the path of righteousness--and lost face?
Get them together in groups and they'll be yelling hey mans like nobody's business.
-
Don't think of these situations as annoying interruptions. Think of them as an opportunity to spread alternative paradigms of English definitions, grammar, syntax, and common expressions. uuuuuuuuuu
"Hello" is wrong. "Me love you loooong time!" is the ONLY proper way for a girl to greet a foreign guy.
-
I don't know what goes on in their minds, and I wish I didn't have to think about it at all. ... Were it even conversation it might potentially be forgivable, but whoever thought up "catch every opportunity" ...
I dislike it all because I don't want to be the one telling some largely harmless kid to...
Early in my stay here. I used to go out in a local park most mornings to take a tai chi class. There was a Chinese in the group, Martin, who had spent a decade in Australia and had excellent English.
So one morning I'm taking a smoke break after an hour or so of practice and a young girl wanders up and shyly tries out her English. She's 17, just finished Middle school, will be an English major next year, and has never spoken to a foreigner before. Chatting with her is fine; she is quite pretty, very sweet and just generally a nice kid.
She is in the park at 7 am to walk the family dog, accompanied by an uncle. Martin wanders over and tells me that the uncle is lecturing his niece, telling her that she must take full advantage of the opportunity, come to the park every day and practice hard. I excused myself and went back to tai chi. Martin and the uncle had a conversation. I never saw the kid again.
She was a nice enough kid. I'd happily have chatted to her a few times, but the pushy uncle blew it for her.
-
I generally feel some compassion for these guys.
As teachers, we want them to practice their English...and to me, such an approach marks the possibility of an actual diligent student. We expats mark the only native speakers they CAN practice with. If I have the time and the mood, I'll spend a few moments talking to them.
Sometimes, I meet some cool people or at least find a reasonably interesting conversation.
I DON'T let it turn into a class. I get paid to teach classes.
And if I'm just not in the mood, well, I have developed some creative ways of getting out of the situation clearly. uuuuuuuuuu
-
Whenever I see Chinese people on the street back here in the US I have to hold myself back from going up to them and asking stupid questions in extremely basic (and of course broken) Chinese.
The one time I tried that, in Toronto Chinatown, the girls turned out to be Vietnamese.
-
the lack of respect for privacy or space is what makes me crazy and it is not the kids fault but the parents, family and teachers pushing them.
Now that my Chinese is better i explain to people who impolite it can be, sometimes I see a spark of comprehension whle other times it completely goes over their head.
I always remind myself that i would not get to angry at the dog for peeing on the floor.
-
What do Chinese teachers do, I wonder. They get imposed on a lot too, but... like it? That awesomely ridiculous notion of teacher as surrogate parent who shows their concern by spending time with you... I don't even know how to express it... but Chinese teachers get the trade off. They get to be officiously involved in way too many aspects of a student's life, teaching them how to be a "people", not just how to pass a subject.
I THINK NONE OF THEM ARE AWARE IT IS AN IMPOSITION.
Or if they are, then they expect to make some trade. That is, if everyone involved is Chinese, then they expect to make some trade. The stupid foriegns don't know that free space isn't a given while relationship is and you're supposed to negotiate benefits.
Needs a menu:
10 minutes English: hand
15 minutes English plus 10 minutes correction and development exercise: blow
30 minutes English each day plus scornful correction: marry.
-
This is actually an important part of our job as foreign teachers to make our students get some appreciation of appropriateness.
Even more important than any grammar or anything is how and when to use English, and this is an area where we are genuinely valuable solely on the basis of where we were born. I know that it comes up in Business English a lot but I think it's equally important to teach some of this at all levels. When you look at the state of the ESL industry over here it's hardly a surprise so many people have weird ideas about foreigners
Incidentally, my girlfriend sometimes got 'Ni hao' from locals when we lived in Holland. It did tend to be lads in their early 20s when they didn't realise that she was with her boyfriend so I don't think it was just 'Oh, a foreigner....'
-
Needs a menu:
10 minutes English: hand
15 minutes English plus 10 minutes correction and development exercise: blow
30 minutes English each day plus scornful correction: marry.
20 minutes English : 10 minutes French
30 minutes English : 10 minutes Spanish
-
I think there is a difference betwen the foreigners that are her for a short time and the ones that stay for an indefinite period of time.
i have noticed that ones that are here for a short time do not really care if people interrrupt them, point out the lao wai, say hello or other thigs that can be thought of as rude. Because they are only here for a short good time it is easier to just let it go and do not really get it when a longtimer complains about it.
The people that have been here for a while that have been bombarded with these things for years takea more negative stance on it and get frustrated when foreigners around them do nothing to change the behavior.
I agre that as teachers our job is not only to teach English but also correct thigs that are just plain wrong. I like being here enough to take the time out to explain to people what exactly the problem is. It is hard to not get angry and lose my patience but I realized that anger doesnt do anything helpful. when i walk my dog i pick up her poop and have been noticed by people in my neighbourhood. some folks with dogs have started doing t as well. For the ones that do not i have started handing them some toilet paper and just saying saying that i am sure they forgot or ran out and I wanted to help them.
-
My sympathies go both ways on this one. When I'm out and about and someone sits down at the dinner table next to me (without asking) and then starts practicing their English on me, it pushes a few buttons.
On the other hand, just the thought of my wonderful students innocently crashing into another foreigner's day, wanting to practice English in our somewhat laowai-deprived one horse town... and getting someone like me in a bad mood... doesn't bear thinking about! Must make a mental note to incorporate something into a class about 'how to approach strangers' to prevent this possibility.
Part of my problem is the long vs short term viewpoints, (as identified by Kevcom1). When I'm out and in a small group of foreigners with different attitudes toward this sort of thing, I don't want to embarrass my friends by telling off an over eager 'We'd like to speak English with you" person but I also don't enjoy getting stuck with that person for the rest of the day or evening, just because the others are...
a. enjoying the attention
b. think our would be English student is 'cute' (interpret the word as you will)
c. think it's our moral duty to uplift the dull, dreary, disappointed locals with our English speaking charms.
d. are genuinely nice people.
-
This has reminded me one of the benefits to being a BBC (British version of ABC). Nobody asks to speak English with me. Downside is taxi drivers think I am retarded for my poor Manderin.
-
Whenever I see Chinese people on the street back here in the US I have to hold myself back from going up to them and asking stupid questions in extremely basic (and of course broken) Chinese. It would just be so self satisfying.
I have EVERY intention of doing this when I go home! My students have taught me a few sentences. I'm actually going to film it for them.
The blessed things were very surprised to hear that we don't stand and point at foreigners in my town, and have asked me to prove it, mission accepted!
-
It happens quite a lot in Beijing, especially in the Wangfujing area. Many of them think that weekends are 'open-season' for free laowai lessons. They have no real concept of the fact that sometimes I like some private time. So, I usually tell them I'd be very happy to talk with them.
Then I ask them if they know a good coffee shop where they can be me a coffee, and tell them I charge RMB150 an hour.
They leave me alone then.
-
I THINK NONE OF THEM ARE AWARE IT IS AN IMPOSITION.
Bingo. This is why I don't generally get ugly with them, as long as nice works out for everyone.
-
Yesterday I was minding my own business and enjoying myself skating around an ice rink. A woman called me over to the boards. I was going fast enough that I had to put the brakes on and back-track. [Yes, after years of not skating I can still skate fairly quickly without falling down and can still manage to stop, not quite on a dime, but passably without killing myself.] What did she want? She was with two men (all of them Chinese) and had a car manual, of all things to have at a skating rink. She wanted to know what 'drive cylinder' meant in Chinese. ahahahahah She picked the wrong laowai to ask for Chinese translations of technical stuff. She had a picture. They all knew what it was. She had the English words. Not sure why she thought I would know the Chinese word mmmmmmmmmm I apologized for not knowing, she thanked me and I went on my way. Weird encounter, but little surprises me any more.
Another encounter at the rink had less to do with my English-speaking ability than my skating ability. I'm no Wayne Gretzky, but other than the guys who worked there and a group of little girls who had private lessons in a roped-off area and then skated rings around everyone else, I was doing better than the others for form and speed. ababababab I grew up in Canada; learning to skate is a Civic Duty. Two guys asked me for help. This was not long after Miss Car Manual, so I assumed they wanted to "practice English". Nope. Could you teach us to skate? [I was also by far the oldest person on the ice. Other than about 5 others, most of the skaters were less than half my age.]
-
Ruth's post just reminded me of that phenomenon where some Chinese people seem to think that you know everything lol
In a similar vein going to the supermarket usually involves people checking out what I am buying and putting the same in their basket
-
Bingo. This is why I don't generally get ugly with them, as long as nice works out for everyone.
Three years ago a freshman student stayed to talk with me after our oral English evening class. Week after week. Persistent guy. I'd shut down the computer, pack my things, turn off the lights, walk out of the building and down the street. He'd stick with me and keep talking. Always with the questions. We'd stand on the corner where our paths diverged and talk some more. I have to admit that often my thoughts ran to "How can I graciously excuse myself from this conversation so I can go home and relax?" Shame on me. I'm selfish. The questions became more intense and I invited him to my home where he could meet my husband and we could have a more relaxed conversation. Could he bring a couple of friends? (Just a few days ago he admitted that that request was for moral support because he was afraid of going alone.) This kid has grown into a serious young man who is as dear to me as my sons are. He still asks questions and he's still persistent. He's going to be a strong leader in his community one day, I just know it, because he already is. He and the friends he brought to our home that first time came to practice English. We let them. The relationships grew, and grew, and grew. There is now a core group of about 15 kids young adults committed to us and each other. I can't express in words how marvelous it is to watch them interact with each other. They share joys and disappointments, laughing and crying together. We get to be aunt and uncle, surrogate parents or grandparents, whatever. It is the first time in my life I've experienced community like this and I would have missed it all if I'd blown that persistent kid off.
My point? You just never know what blessings are there. Do I take time to get to know everyone who wants to practice English with me? No. I don't have the time. But I'm so glad I paused on that street corner week after week three years ago.
-
In a similar vein going to the supermarket usually involves people checking out what I am buying and putting the same in their basket
Damn. That explains why every time I find a new snack I like they start running out all the time. asasasasas
-
If they are of an appropriate age, and female, and cute, and willing, I speak English with them for a while, and then I make love to them. Sweet, passionate love.
-
Ruth, you never cease to amaze me with what a thoroughly beautiful person you are. bjbjbjbjbj akakakakak
In a similar vein going to the supermarket usually involves people checking out what I am buying and putting the same in their basket
Yeah, they do that.
At one point I was seriously considering marketing cloth shopping-basket covers. These would use sewn-in magnets to line the basket and cover the top, and would be emblazoned with the Chinese characters equating to "Fuck off!". ahahahahah
In the meantime...if you can find them, always buy a jar of green olives on such trips. Make a big ooh-ing and ahh-ing deal over them. The homeys don't generally care for powerful sour flavors, and green olives seem to be unpleasant to them to the point of borderline emetic. uuuuuuuuuu
-
I'd be thrown for a bit too if someone asked me about a "drive cylinder", but I assume that's what's known as a "drive shaft" in Intl' Standard English (US) hehe. ahahahahah
-
A slightly new take on this one. Shanghai, Nanjing Road pedestrian mall, after dark, I'm on my own heading back to the hotel. Twice inside a minute, I was approached by two college aged girls - pretty, but not tarty, wanting to talk to me. Both spoke good English and both made significant breast to upper arm contact, and I've been around long enough to read that body language. Pimping? Working solo to pay off school fees or dad's operation? I didn't bother to find out, but one seemed genuinely upset I wouldn't converse with her.
On a different tack, I'll always spend time on a person who explains they are a junior or middle school English teacher. We chalkies need to stick together.
-
Yeah, Nanjing Dong Lu is known for that. Can't walk down that street without being approached. Once I was at (one of) the Pizza Huts on that road with two students. It was their treat so they got to name the place. I was talking to them about this "phenomenon" and they didn't believe me. SO I told them to walk 10 meters behind me when we left the restaurant and within a 5 minute walk, two different "girls" approached me. My students were a little embarrassed by their compatriots actions. They were a bit more embarrassed after they caught up to me and I told them the "girls'" English was better than theirs.
Oh yeah, and some middle aged guy came up to me once on Nanjing Dong Lu with almost flawless English and wanted to chat. He said he was an English professor from SIchuan University just in town for a few days, and he pulled out his card. Three years later, I'm again walking down Nanjing Dong Lu and the same guy approaches with the same story. Wow! What's the likelihood that he'd be back in Shanghai from Chengdu 3 years later? I called him on it and he scurried away. A year later I saw the same guy on the same street. Luckily he had already hooked up with a couple of foreigners for a "chat." Anybody else ever run into this guy on Nanjing Dong Lu?
-
Getting slightly off topic....They've definitely cleaned up Nanjing Dong Lu over the past 5 years though. The place used to be loaded with prostitutes, scammers inviting you to tea or art shows, bootleggers, and yes, here and there even legitimate 'let's practice english' types. The olympics and expo probably had a lot to do with it. Lots of the stores hidden one street over selling fake stuff have moved somewhere else. My favorite was this guy named "Habib" or something like that who would come up to you whispering "hashish hashish hashish" over and over again under his breath. His card just had his name, a phone number, and a picture of a red ferrari on it. He would make delivery runs in a taxi up to the massive foreign student dorm at Fudan University. The new nanjing donglu and other walking streets are certainly more 'civilized' nowadays, but not nearly as much fun.
-
I'm sure it was the same guy there a few weeks back who approached me, along with another one. Both Xinjiang looking types. No "change money" types on the streets: they were sitting in the banks.
Interestingly, people with a strong motivation to make money will learn English by any means they can. And you can't blame the locals for wanting to practice with real live English speakers: Its a bit like giving someone a gun, but telling them not to shoot anything.
-
This reminds me of some of the people I just met on vacation. I spent last week in Panama and it's been 12 years since I studied or used any Spanish. I tried talking with as many people as possible in an attempt at remembering my Spanish skills. Many of them spoke English and simply insisted I speak English instead of mangling their language.
And I've also approached a few Chinese speakers in the US to practice a little on the street. It's fun. Some of them aren't annoyed by it.
-
I am rarely, if ever, in the mood to converse with people who see me as a walking English lesson, so when they do come up to me and prentend to want to know me, I reply in Danish or German and keep doing so until they go away...so far, I have not met any locals who are willing to have a conversation in either language...
-
Genius! I'll answer everyone in Spanish!
-
I just got back from traveling and for 2 weeks I was in Hing Kong staying with a friend. Normally I have my "guard up" for people looking to speak english, but in HK it was not a problem at all. I went from HK to Shenzhen to catch a plane ride back home and I immediately felt the change of all the people looking at me/thinking of talking to me. I knew I was in trouble when the mom next to me started teaching her kids some english on the plane. When the stewardess asked what I wanted to drink (in english) they practically broke their necks straining to hear me. But I was feeling really sick so I feigned sleep and kept my headphones on.
Anyway, over time you get used to it, but leave for a little bit and return and the attention becomes really hard to adjust to!
-
I once started speaking French and the student answered back in French. asasasasas
I agree with the squirrel that Danish is a great choice because who the hell would bother to learn Danish?
When someone approaches and says hello, i'm friendly and greet them back. After that for everything they say, i tell them i don't understand.
Student: Hello
Me. : Hello
Student: What's your name?
Me. : I'm sorry, I don't understand you.
The look of dejection on their faces is wonderful.
Sometimes I'll use a Trinidad accent and slangs which they have no chance of deciphering.
A couple of times I tried speaking Pig Latin and a few times just gibberish.
With the babes I'll just speak Chinese.
But by far my favourite is 'i don't understand you' crushing their confidence so that they feel the need to take private classes and give all of us more jobs..
You're welcome.
-
its when they say 'can we play with you, we want to play with you' that cracks me up. afafafafaf
-
I just got back from traveling and for 2 weeks I was in Hing Kong staying with a friend. Normally I have my "guard up" for people looking to speak english, but in HK it was not a problem at all. I went from HK to Shenzhen to catch a plane ride back home and I immediately felt the change of all the people looking at me/thinking of talking to me. I knew I was in trouble when the mom next to me started teaching her kids some english on the plane. When the stewardess asked what I wanted to drink (in english) they practically broke their necks straining to hear me. But I was feeling really sick so I feigned sleep and kept my headphones on.
Anyway, over time you get used to it, but leave for a little bit and return and the attention becomes really hard to adjust to!
From my experience, pretty much everyone in HK (who cares to) speaks English already.
-
Now, they are training people to speak English with you.
Civil servants to speak English in Xi'an
All civil servants under the age of 40 will be able to speak English by the year 2015, Xi'an Evening News reported Tuesday.
Civil servants with a university degree and less than 40 years old should be able to speak more than 300 sentences after an English training program in the capital city of northwestern Shaanxi province, under plans approved by the municipal government on Monday.
The plans also aim to popularize English in many service industries including restaurants, taxis, police offices, hotels and hospitals.
The city will also provide multilingual counseling on its emergency call platform 120 to provide better services for local expats, according to the report.
Given that time frame, can someone work out how many days a civil servant can set aside to learn one sentence?
-
FTs living in Xi'an should be all over this opportunity to work with the local govt. They'll probably go with local Chinese teachers, but suggest they throw in a few training opps for FTs, too, if you've got the guanxi.
-
I haven't encountered this problem too much yet, however the constant shoutings of hello in the streets really gets on my nerve llllllllll
-
Here are the unofficial Saloon "Hello" rules:
1. If the person yelling "hello" waits until after passing you, do not turn around. Coldly ignore the hello. Failure to follow this rule will result in excessive neck strain. No one who walks past and then shouts "hello" is going to be capable of an English conversation anyway.
2. If the person yells "hello" and then instantly laughs like he's trying out for the Bevis and Butthead fan club, coldly ignore him.
3. A semi-friendly "hello" from in front should be treated with some level of politeness. If you don't feel like getting to the "how are you?" stage of a dead end conversation, just smile and nod.
4. For small children, saying "hello" back is usually a nice thing to do. Encouraging them to speak English is in our long term interests here at the Saloon.
5. Really hot Chinese girls should always get a warm smile and "hello" in return.
-
Here are the unofficial Saloon "Hello" rules:
1. If the person yelling "hello" waits until after passing you, do not turn around. Coldly ignore the hello. Failure to follow this rule will result in excessive neck strain. No one who walks past and then shouts "hello" is going to be capable of an English conversation anyway.
2. If the person yells "hello" and then instantly laughs like he's trying out for the Bevis and Butthead fan club, coldly ignore him.
3. A semi-friendly "hello" from in front should be treated with some level of politeness. If you don't feel like getting to the "how are you?" stage of a dead end conversation, just smile and nod.
4. For small children, saying "hello" back is usually a nice thing to do. Encouraging them to speak English is in our long term interests here at the Saloon.
5. Really hot Chinese girls should always get a warm smile and "hello" in return.
What if the person waits until you're level with them and then bellows 'hello' in your ear. Can i apply the Beavis and Butthead protocol?
-
No, in that case you turn around, stick your thumbs in your ears and waggle the rest of the fingers whilst rolling your eyes, and making a Looney Tunes Tasmanian Devil-impersonation...this is also the same response recommended when experiencing the "you teach me English, I teach you Chinese" request.
-
I just respond with "Lo siento, no hablo engles".
-
Here are the unofficial Saloon "Hello" rules:
1. If the person yelling "hello" waits until after passing you, do not turn around. Coldly ignore the hello. Failure to follow this rule will result in excessive neck strain. No one who walks past and then shouts "hello" is going to be capable of an English conversation anyway.
2. If the person yells "hello" and then instantly laughs like he's trying out for the Bevis and Butthead fan club, coldly ignore him.
3. A semi-friendly "hello" from in front should be treated with some level of politeness. If you don't feel like getting to the "how are you?" stage of a dead end conversation, just smile and nod.
4. For small children, saying "hello" back is usually a nice thing to do. Encouraging them to speak English is in our long term interests here at the Saloon.
5. Really hot Chinese girls should always get a warm smile and "hello" in return.
Brilliant.
This is exactly what I have been doing ahahahahah
-
as you can see, the best rules are those that one intuitively follows anyway.
-
I've been in Dalian for nine months now, and strangely I haven't encountered this "We'd like to speak English with you" phenomenon yet.
I've experienced the "hello" from behind the back less than a handful of times. I've replied once or twice. They usually break out in laughter. So I don't bother doing that anymore.
I wonder if these phenomena are more common in some areas of China than others. I don't really get stared at very often here either.
It generally happens more in smaller places or perhaps you are particularly ugly.
-
I lived in Dalian for 5 years. I loved it there and wish I was still there bibibibibi
Anyhow, I don't remember any real problems with the "hello's" but would occasionally get some staring, usually with migrant workers rather than the locals.
I frequently was approached with the "I'd like to speak English with you" but 99.9% of the time it was on campus. I would say sure, while I am walking home but no longer. agagagagag The student would always agree but be so 'sad' when I said bye, I live over there and leave ahahahahah ahahahahah
-
Why did you leave Dalian? Are you still in China?
Nope, I am back in Canada now. I aged out unfortunately but wish I was still in China. I really miss China. I miss the food, I miss my Chinese friends too. bjbjbjbjbj
-
DS, Come back for a visit. That's why they invented L visas. agagagagag
-
EL Sorry but: Wo mei you qian 我没有钱
-
EL Sorry but: Wo mei you qian 我没有钱
I'd say to hitchhike, but they haven't built that bridge over the Bering Strait yet. llllllllll
-
Stumbled on this thread while looking for goofy English Corner questions and I feel like making a reply.
I enthusiastically respond to students or other Chinese who want to spend time with me in order to improve their English or hang out with someone from a foreign country. It's basically in my nature, and one thing you have to give Chinese credit for is exceptional effort at being hospitable with foreign strangers.
However, time and again I run into a problem that, when I get to the heart of it, has nothing to do with culture or appropriateness, and nothing to do with English or Chinese, and it's the same problem that Chinese have with each other 24/7 that they usually solve by avoidance or habitual obliviousness.
Listening is a basic skill beyond aural function, frequency range, and dB sensitivity. How do you respond to someone who is essentially attacking you verbally in a violent, one-way oral assault with mouth open and ears turned off?
How do you do anything non-violent with a person who refuses to listen, refuses a two-way communication, and forcefully projects bizarre stereotypes onto you, tries to pressure you into gan-bei, etc? The polite Chinese way is to sort of smile at your assailant, nod a bit, utter no words, maybe grunt, and voila: a "polite conversation".