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Title: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Foscolo on March 22, 2008, 03:40:20 AM
I didn't see anything on this here, but apologies if this topic has already been well covered.

A couple of years ago my girlfriend (now wife) broke her ankle in the foot-sticking-out-at-weird-angle kind of way which is pretty much how you most don't want to break your ankle.

We got a taxi to the main city hospital. I assumed that we would then hand over insurance documents, and everything would be taken care of. Wrong! They wanted 4000RMB in cash up front before they'd so much as open a packet of Band-aid.

Luckily we had viable visa cards and knew where an international ATM was, so I got into another taxi and headed off across town, leaving Mrs F. sitting on a bench trying not to scream.

What followed was a genuine Third World hospital experience. One highlight was the daily visit of Stinking Mop Lady, pushing a bundle of foul-smelling rags on a  stick around, leaving a trial of putrescent slime. Another treat were the regular rubber-gloves-on rectal examinations of the patient in the next bed, 18 inches away - no curtains.

I could fill pages, but the point I want to make is this. In the event of a medical emergency, it can be really handy to have genuinely instant access to some cash. Once you're checked in to a hospital, you may well be able to rely on your employer and/or insurance company if you have one to smooth the way, but that's going to take time to organize. In the first instance Mr Visa or Mrs Mastercard could be the best friends you ever had.

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Schnerby on March 22, 2008, 11:45:10 AM
Oddly enough I had a similar experience...

I was hospitalised in Hangzhou with acute cholecystitis (or to the rest of us, a sore tummy). Apart from the little flyswat hanging above my bed there was certainly no creature comforts. My parents and a translator had to keep going deep into the bowels of the hospital to pay for doctors, tests and medicines before they could be given to/visit me.

I had a chest x-ray and since I couldn't stand up unassisted my Dad had to hold me up. He didn't get a radiation apron and I wouldn't be surprised if that bugger sterilised everyone in a 5m radius.

I got moved to the nearby American hospital (my parents became thankful for all the medical insurance) and conditions were no better. I was sick in my bed so the kind cleaner wiped my sheets, put a piece of paper over the wet bits and spread the rest around the floor. They were determined to give me a blood transfusion but I tested my theory that you cannot give a moving person a needle. It worked.

If we had no cash on us I was pretty much screwed. If I had nobody with me to do the running about, I was also screwed.

At least an ambulance took me, my parents, a translator, my teacher and a nurse back to a hotel when I was discharged cheaper than a taxi.

We did get our costs back (plus a profit due to exchange rates) no thanks to the illegible doctors certificate. I might start running a little scheme. Or perhaps not.

So the short version is they want cash, not insurance papers or pleas for mercy.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Monkey King on March 22, 2008, 01:16:56 PM
I broke my ankle here, and was told via translator at the first (local) hospital I visited that I needed an operation to fix it, or else I would be unable to walk for months, it would never heal properly, I would have problems for the rest of my life etc.  This would require a month or more hospital stay, they told me.

This hospital specialized in limb injuries, by the way.  The place was packed with what I assume were migrant workers who had suffered rather more serious mishaps than me.  Not a pleasant experience.

Anyway, I was dubious about the operation, and visited a specialist in Shanghai for a second opinion(= EXPENSIVE).  He told me it was a straightforward break which did not in fact need an operation at all, just 8 weeks in a cast (he also replaced the rather shoddy original one I had been given).

I was back at work on crutches in just over a month and the cast came off no problems after the 8 weeks.

So, yeah, beware.  And have good medical insurance.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: AMonk on March 22, 2008, 07:23:16 PM
And have good medical insurance.

What insurance Companies do you all recommend?  And how much does it cost?
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: dragonsaver on March 22, 2008, 10:10:24 PM
And have good medical insurance.

What insurance Companies do you all recommend?  And how much does it cost?

More than I can afford so I don't have any in China. llllllllll
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Monkey King on March 22, 2008, 11:59:44 PM
Yeah, I think it's pretty expensive, but my school pays. I work for a joint venture, and one of the perks is that we get cover through an international company (AXA).  Before I got this job I was either not covered or reliant on the local cover many Chinese unis offer.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: AMonk on March 23, 2008, 12:39:30 AM
Just got my ExpatExchange newsletter, with a contact for health insurance info.  I checked it out.  Looks pretty good...considering.  Hubby and I could both be covered at a total cost of about $400 per month.  Individual coverage (in our respective age brackets) runs between $167 and $267 a month.  If you're interested, they're at http://www.internationalhealthplans.com . And you don't have to be any particular nationality to apply, either.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Foscolo on March 23, 2008, 03:55:24 AM
If you'll be in China for no more than a year at a stretch, you could consider backpacker-type travel insurance for medical care only. That can work out relatively cheap - maybe $800 for 12 months - check around via Google for the best deals. Premiums can vary widely so it's well worth being persistent. If you include baggage cover, the premiums tend to shoot up.

Returning to MK's point about unnecessary treatment, my wife was endlessly hooked up to drips, subjected to injections and given dozens of pills. This seemed strange for a broken ankle, so I asked the opinion of a doctor contact back home, and his opinion was that none of it was likely to be necessary, and it should all be refused. My wife did this, and immediately started to feel better. It seems they were filling her up with garbage so they could put it on the bill.

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: old34 on March 23, 2008, 04:33:16 AM
Zhejiang Province Foreign Experts Bureau now requires schools to provide medical insurance for their Foreign Experts through PICC (Peoples Insurance Company of China). PICC has set up a group plan for the Zhejiang FEB. The medical insurance provision is now specifically included in the contract and, as well, the FEB requires proof of insurance through the program before it will issue a Foreign Expert Certificate.

For China, the benefits are quite good. Much better than  the usual go to the school clinic and we'll take care of it. You get to name a hospital in your locale as your primary care-giver (as long as it's on their list). And it includes some major medical, some accidental death benefits and a small life insurance component.

It is very similar to the general policy that PICC has created for (and I Quote) "Comprehensive Medical Insurance for Foreigners and People from Hongkong,Macao and Taiwan" which can be found on PICC's website. The address is here:

http://www.picchealth.com/english/tabid/496/InfoID/439/frtid/371/Default.aspx (http://www.picchealth.com/english/tabid/496/InfoID/439/frtid/371/Default.aspx)

You can get a chinglized idea of the benefits, limits and exclusions there.

The cost of that program is 1680 RMB/year as of last fall. If you have no other options (and your school isn't providing you anything), you might want to check out that IN China policy. The cost for a year is about a one month premium back home.

The Zhejiang FEB group plan has a bit more liberal limits. But my FAO told me the cost to the school was almost the same. In other words, the schools pay about 1600 RMB per teacher for inclusion in the group plan.

She also told me that other provinces are considering a similar scheme. So it may be coming to a neighborhood near you soon if you work in schools subject to your local/provincial FEB.

But again, if you missed it, if you want a cheap, in China med plan, the PICC plan is available to any individual who qualifies as a "Foreigner or people from Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan" (sic).

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: dragonsaver on March 23, 2008, 11:06:30 PM
It is compulsory for us to have insurance at my Uni.  The school charges us 200RMB for the year and they pay the rest.  I haven't used it but some teachers never got reimbursed for their expenses.  Maybe the school not the plan though.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Lotus Eater on March 24, 2008, 12:02:09 AM
My university provides coverage - but they did make sure that the couple who came who are in their late 60's-early 70's had US medical insurance.

If FTs sick we are taken by the FAO to the Shaanxi Provincial Hospital, and if possible seen in the "Foreigners and Government Leaders" section of the hospital.  One of the FTs spent a week hospitalised there - and the FAO picked up the total cost.  For minor things - X-rays that I had on my knee and ankle last year, the FAO paid, and for being on the drip etc again the FAO paid the cost of medicine, and equipment.

If it is really minor - flu or la duzi the FAO takes us to the university clinic and again pays for whatever is needed.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on March 24, 2008, 03:30:48 AM
Like many of you, I also have no medical insurance at all. Flying among the trapezes without a net. aoaoaoaoao

Foreign medical insurance, at least a policy that's worth a damn, is NOT cheap if you've already passed the sweet side of 35 years of age.
But for me the real value of having it would be that if you ever have a truly serious medical problem, you can go to a place with real doctors (such as HK or Japan) and be covered.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Foscolo on March 24, 2008, 06:34:11 AM
My wife had a major ankle reconstruction operation and was in hospital for three weeks. The bill was around 3,000 US dollars, but at least half that was for upgrading to a private room on the lucky rich bastards VIP floor when one became available about a week into it.

Obviously that kind of fee is not peanuts, but it's probably not going to ruin your life, either. (Although that's not necessarily the case if you're Chinese, of course.)
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on March 24, 2008, 10:55:03 AM
For many teachers $3,000 USD is the equivalent of 3-5 months' salary.
Having to cough that up unexpectedly could be pretty ruinous. Sure would be for me... alalalalal
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: AMonk on March 24, 2008, 12:56:02 PM
Foreign medical insurance, at least a policy that's worth a damn, is NOT cheap if you've already passed the sweet side of 35 years of age.
But for me the real value of having it would be that if you ever have a truly serious medical problem, you can go to a place with real doctors (such as HK or Japan) and be covered.

And that is covered by the Company I checked out.  Apart from which, I don't see much difference between the China policy and the other one....apart from co$t.

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Schnerby on March 24, 2008, 01:03:19 PM
I was looking at my medical insurance and the best plan I found was Allianz. They will do very comprehensive insurance for $800AUS a year and a budget insurance for somewhere around $350AUS (but doesn't include going anywhere near the US >Asia/Pacific cover only).

I reckon that if I can't afford my own insurance I'm not going. Should I need to be evacuated to Japan/HK or even home I know it's covered.

2200RMB is a big amount I know, but for your health I wouldn't trust just any plan a school said they provided for me.

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: AMonk on March 24, 2008, 01:13:37 PM
I was looking at my medical insurance and the best plan I found was Allianz. They will do very comprehensive insurance for $800AUS a year and a budget insurance for somewhere around $350AUS (but doesn't include going anywhere near the US >Asia/Pacific cover only).

OK.  Sounds pretty good.  But...is this only for the Ozzies?  Or can anyone get in on it?  (That is another concern of mine).
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: contemporarydog on March 24, 2008, 03:23:40 PM
We could afford 3000 USD, but that's only due to years and years of Chinese Wife Syndrome.

Luckily my school does provide H.I.  It's with a company called Tiecare and can be used in other countries, with the exception of the USA or Canada.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Schnerby on March 24, 2008, 05:04:32 PM
OK.  Sounds pretty good.  But...is this only for the Ozzies?  Or can anyone get in on it?  (That is another concern of mine).

Not sure about just being for Aussies. It's not a question I asked. Allianz are international though so I think so there should be no reason it wouldn't stretch over borders.
They may be relying on Australia's reciprocal medical care agreements with NZ and other countries to make the Asia/Pacific cover cheaper. It's worth asking though.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Foscolo on March 25, 2008, 02:58:57 AM
It's not very interesting reading, but just for the record, the bill was as follows - round figures RMB.

   2 hour operation:           4,500
   Daily hospital rate                70
   X-Rays, medication etc.    2,500

And then there's another 1,000 or so for something I don't understand. Let's call it hygiene services ("these toilets are cleaned every year, regular as clockwork").

The total was about 10,000 for a three week stay, plus about the same again for upgrading to a private room at 600 a day for some of it.

*     *     *     *

A point that has only been briefly touched on here is that nursing is limited to administering drips and injections - whether you need them or not. If the patient can't do much for themselves, somebody will need to be there round the clock. This is when you find out who your friends are. (Anna, Lorna, Xiao Ming, Amber, Jason, if you're reading this... well, you know what.)

*     *     *     *

Can I really have seen what I think I saw? I hope I misunderstood.

   A man walks into the hospital clutching a bloody rag to the stumps of two severed fingers. He goes up to the reception desk.

   MAN:  I've just lost two fingers in an accident. I need somebody to sew up the stumps. You know, to stop the bleeding.

   RECEPTIONIST:   Where's your money?

   MAN:   I don't have it right here, but that'll be taken care of, I promise. I just need these stumps sewn up. I'm losing quite a lot of blood here.

   RECEPTIONIST:   Come back when you've got some money.

   The walks off, leaving a trail of blood drips.

I'll always regret that by the time I'd figured out what was happening and decided to intervene (the price of a round of JD & Cokes would probably have solved his problem) he'd left the building, and I couldn't find him. But it's OK, because that couldn't possibly have been what was actually happening, right?

*     *     *     *

This is a rather depressing thread, isn't it? And it my fault - I started it. You let a newbie into the forum and within a few days he's taking about hospital bills and severed fingers. I'll shut up now.
 
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: AMonk on March 25, 2008, 05:44:22 AM
Sometimes, Life just isn't pretty, Foscolo.  I'd much prefer "truthful" over "window-dressed".  As would many of us here, I think. 

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Granny Mae on March 25, 2008, 03:45:04 PM
Foscolo, I had an experience in Brisbane Australia where I had to pay first before I went into emergency. I sliced my ankle in a large store and was bleeding profusely. The ambulance came and asked which hospital I wanted to go to . I said the nearest one.They asked if I had private health insurance and I told them that I did. When we arrived at the hospital emegency, I was not even allowed off the ambulance stretcher until my credit card had been swiped first. Even with the highest medical/hospital cover,they were not interested. If I didn't have the cash on hand, I too would have been turned away
and taken to the nearest public hospital where I would have had to wait for ages to be stitched.

As a matter of interest, my China teaching experience has been delayed/cancelled because of a recently discovered serious heart condition. My specialist tells me that he will not be able to recommend me for travel insurance. He tells me I won't be able to be insured, so I am not prepared to take the risk of having a serious medical problem in China. When/if my condition stabilizes, I have to decide about a short time in China and pray that nothing happens to upset the heart  uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Schnerby on March 25, 2008, 04:08:54 PM
Well good luck with the heart!  akakakakak
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Foscolo on March 26, 2008, 08:39:39 PM
Aye to that.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: babala on March 26, 2008, 09:42:12 PM
I just out of the hospital a few weeks ago after a 10 day stay. I was at the newest hospital in Suzhou (Kowloon) and I have to say, the treatment I given was great. Almost all of the nurses spoke english, my room was clean and they let me keep a 2 person room to myself the whole time I was there and even found a translator to come with the doctor everytime they did rounds. Also I would like to add that it was the Chinese doctor who caught the mistake of the foriegn doctor I first saw. The foreign doctor never even went over the results of my tests with me asasasasas The total amount I paid was 4200 RMB for the ten day stay.

By the way, the room was very clean and looked a bit like a hotel room. If you want to know if the bed was comfortable, just ask Con. He fell asleep in the other bed when he came to visit afafafafaf
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Con ate dog on March 26, 2008, 10:54:35 PM
That's one pretty hospital. SHould I require a stay, that's the one I'll pick.

And yeah, I want a buy one of those hospital beds.  Do they make doubles?  afafafafaf

Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: kcanuck on March 27, 2008, 03:16:05 AM
Not to sound too cynical, it's pretty and clean and shiny now but what will it look like in a year?  Babs, I'm glad the hospital stay wasn't horrible and the digs were to your liking and happier still to know you're on the mend. agagagagag
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: contemporarydog on March 27, 2008, 04:19:33 PM
Stories like that make me glad of the NHS, for all its faults.

China's about as communist as ronald reagan.  Marx would be turning in his grave if he read stories like that.  llllllllll
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: James the Brit on March 27, 2008, 09:47:53 PM
Stories like that make me glad of the NHS, for all its faults.

haha!
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: Foscolo on March 28, 2008, 09:02:03 AM
For non-Brit readers, the NHS is the National Health Service. For less serious medical problems the service is usually quite good, although there can be delays and incompetencies. But generally speaking if there's something seriously wrong with you, you can be guaranteed state-of-the-art treatment for as long as it takes, or you die. And nothing will cost a you a penny. Brits who've never lived abroad complain about it regularly. Those of us who've seen life in countries with nothing comparable tend to realise that we're very fortunate. For one thing, if we get seriously sick abroad, we can just struggle onto a plane and go home to get sorted out.
Title: Re: Hospitalized in China
Post by: contemporarydog on March 28, 2008, 05:36:07 PM
But generally speaking if there's something seriously wrong with you, you can be guaranteed state-of-the-art treatment for as long as it takes, or you die.

I think you need to rephrase that slightly! 

Otherwise, I agree.

People often talk about the waiting lists but it's actually pretty rare, unless it's got considerably worse in the last 15 years, to have to be kept waiting for something urgent.