To criticise or not

Decided to start this thread because I couldn't figure out how to fit it into either of the other threads that originated the thoughts.

My point about laowai criticising the Chinese education system is that EVERYONE already in the system KNOWS it is corrupt.  I have had master's students write their thesis on corruption within the education system - running surveys on teachers and students to assess the level of corrupt practice. The same with the political system and any other institutionalised system here.

We are NOT giving new information.  We are NOT showing them a better way of doing things.

Therefore when we complain or criticise we are NOT helping, we are merely showing that we DON'T understand the system at all.  We are also in effect attempting to demonstrate our moral superiority (and with Iraq staring us in the face as an example of open and honest government systems - and NOT just the US response but other countries as well - we have no grounds to stand on) and this does not gain us any respect, kudos or influence.

No matter how bad your own system is, when pressured from outside you actually defend it.  Works for anything from family to country.  So by criticising, telling people this is not how it's done back home, how our system is so much better and more effective, we set ourselves up to be ignored, marginalised and dismissed.

If you have worked in change management then you will know that for any change to be effective it has to be embraced by those that it will effect the most, it has to involve those within the system. Effective change does not come from external force imposition.  It does not come from "consultants" paid megabucks to tell corporations what to do and it definitely does not come from those considered 'fat cats' and fly-by-nighters i.e. FTs.

Change also needs to fit with the culture of the company, the same changes developed in one company will not work the same way in another company. They have to be tailored to fit.  So imposing any external 'back home' way of doing things again will be ineffective.  It has to be developed to fit the ethos here.

So we want to have an impact?  Then it is through our work, our influence on the students.  We have to be the change we want to happen. 

In addition to Sir Duke, Lotus Eater, IMHO writes some of the most intelligent, balanced, and thought-provoking posts found at the Saloon. I find myself cheering (albeit silently) as I read many of her posts. No exception here. I suppose what I struggle with is not so much about open criticism -- because yes, LE is absolutely right, the people of China know all about corruption more than we do – but how to live in China reasonably happily and harmoniously while staying true to myself and my own ethics. How to live and work effectively within a system and not participate in things that I find quite unethical or downright offensive?

I agree with LE very much that our primary focus should be (and always remain) on the students. In this regard, China has not been a disappointment to me. On the contrary, it is due to the diligence, warmth, and curiosity of a great many of my students that has kept me in China much longer than originally planned. As long as I am in the classroom, giving my best, and seeking new ways to illuminate and inspire, all is (mostly) well.

It’s what transpires outside the classroom that is the source of my confusion, frustration, and sometimes outrage at life here.

I agree with LE and Missi that we should never tell the people of China what they should do. I certainly don’t want anyone telling me how to live, what actions to take, etc. (at home, or abroad). But I also believe we must live by example, and I think I have made some small, positive effect with my students in this way as much as I have through English instruction.

For example, last year I was teaching in HeFei, Anhui. A group of about five students and I went shopping one weekend afternoon at the shiny new Carrefour in the center of the city. After we left the superstore, we took our place in line (queue) at the taxi stand.

First of all, I was thrilled to see that someone had actually planned and implemented a system for getting a taxi rather than letting everyone fend for themselves while loaded with shopping bags. Waiting in front of us was a young woman, holding her baby and her shopping bags. Her designated taxi approached and as she prepared herself, a middle-aged man seemed to appear from nowhere (he hadn’t been waiting with others in line) and tried to enter the taxi. I swiftly stepped forward and physically prevented him from seizing the taxi from the young mother.

At first, my students were rather taken aback by my actions, and so I explained to them why I had done what I had done. The next day, they kept talking about it in class as if I were some kind of hero. What I tried to explain is that most western people do not accept this type of behavior. I simply did what I thought was fair for this young mother who had waited for her rightful turn.

I think many of the problems I have regarding poor, rude, and aggressive public behavior in China comes from the fact that such actions are seen as normal, and therefore, we all must “bear it.” I disagree. I think we need to show an alternative to this behavior. My public behavior is extremely polite and I think most people appreciate it. I hope in time, others will mimic my behavior toward others. Who knows…?   

LE is right that we must bring change through dedication and example, not lecturing. I happen to feel that this work is as vital and essential as our traditional instruction. They need to see and sometimes experience alternatives in thinking and action. Otherwise, how can we expect more positive change to occur?

I am not particularly thrilled to see the massive proliferation of McDonald’s in China. However, if I feel McD’s has brought a positive effect to China it is more within their employee training and management system. McD’s teaches its staff more courteous behavior towards clientele, more efficient productivity in food service, performance recognition, etc. I think that this is a far greater benefit to China than pushing chicken sandwiches and soft ice cream.

My students look to me for so many answers and alternatives. Like LE has mentioned in other threads, I too teach English AND critical thinking. In my mind, the second task is perhaps greater (and certainly more rewarding) than the first. Students look to us for so many answers and alternatives. Many times I find I am the very first teacher to ask them THEIR opinion about something. We must help them discover their own ways of helping China “develop” in a more positive way.

I'd like to add that I think a fundamental reason I've had mostly wonderful relationships with my students (academic only!) is because when I first begin a new class, I tell them that I consider them to be MY teachers as well. At first hearing, many of them laugh nervously, but over time, they see this is true. I tell them that almost everything I have learned about China, Chinese culture, history, etc., has come from them. I remind them that everyone in the classroom has special knowledge and experience, and that each member of the class has unique ideas and opinions to bring to the discussion. As much as possible, I try to teach according to what THEY express or inquire about first.

My teaching of vocabulary, grammar, syntax, etc., often comes in response to something they express (or try to express). I make an effort to support and augment (and sometimes debate) their ideas and opinions with additional vocabulary, and alternative ways to express this idea. I try my utmost to guide students to become more active partners and collaborators in their learning. This method often brings lots of pleasant and sometimes provocative surprises and breaks the routine of mundane English language learning. I always prepare a lesson, but far more importantly, I try to keep the class as spontaneous as possible and let the class take on a life of its own. Hopefully, through example, I also teach them respect for their fellow classmates, and that when one is speaking, they are teaching all of us.



 

It's a great issue for a debate: to be or not to be?  Is it nobler in the mind to ignore the corruption around you, and quietly lead by example and most of all just TEACH?

Or do you fight the good fight?  Good, brave people standing up and being counted is the main way things have ever changed for the better, throughout history.  For evil to triumph...

I'll bet that Myers-Briggs test could speak volumes about the various ways folks approach this issue.  Last year Raoul and I had to deal with this directly: the college we taught at had admitted students that were great at English, merely adequate, distinctly inadequate and incapable of any English beyond "Hallo", and lumped them in the same room. 
A sleazebag teacher had instructed all students to buy New Concept English textbooks , despite the fact we didn't teach from them, probably to collect a kickback.
We were told that even if we failed the students, they would be back with the students that passed, i.e. there were no consequences to failing to work or learn.  later the story changed and they claimed that students failing both semesters would have to repeat the year; I still suspect that was a big fat lie.
That sleazebag teacher started giving out our phone numbers to his students.  He told our students to go up and knock on our fellow FT's door (she lived in rez) whenever they wanted something.

Raoul's approach was head-on: he got in people's faces about the inappropriate things he saw.  Me, I was more diplomatic, sometimes discussing these things, sometimes proposing alternatives, sometimes putting up with crap in the name of Shut Up and Teach.

As the year wore on, Raoul was increasingly marginalized: everyone was afraid he'd say something... uncomfortable.  He didn't want to go back for a second year, which is just as well, since he'd burned bridges.
On the other hand, most of the things he called them on changed, and when they didn't he made people uncomfortable.  This being the inaugural year of the program, everything that took place set a major precedent for the faculty at that school; they have a chance to make it a fine program.

I picked far fewer battles.  I'm a diplomat by nature, and tried the softpedal approach most of the time.  I got my share of changes made too, by avoiding the whole Face thing.  But I have to wonder how much of that would have worked without Bad Cop Raoul in the picture.  I also have to wonder what would have gone down if I'd taken a tougher stance, more in unison with Raoul: would we have alienated everybody, or would we have gotten our way?

This is an extremely valuable thread: here we can discuss that line between misdemeanor and felony, venal and carnal sin, I'll-grumble-but-stand-for-it and I'm-walking-outoif-this-doesnt-change.  A generally agreed upon standard would give folks something to steer by.

That doesn't just apply to quitting a job, but also to leaving China.  I first visited China in 1987, and wanted to come back, but waited 15 years because of the Tiannenmen massacre.  How terrible a thing would the government have to do before I in good conscience would have to leave?

Thank you, Dr. Con. It took both of us to make what happened, happen...

For what it's worth, the administration of that school is working with me to find the next line of teachers. I think we both had the option to come back if we wanted. We didn't wanna...they moved this monster from way too far out north to, I dunno...somewhere in the middle of the East China Sea, I think. They run 3 submarines a day between the campus and a canal in east Suzhou.
(But ya gotta admit...property IS a lot cheaper out there. Many saves for big important school owner mans! )

Complaint is an absolutely essential ingredient in getting anything to change here. And it's gotta be in public...if you confine your concerns to a nice quiet back-room meeting, they will smile, agree, thank you for your input...and do nothing.

The entire rotten part of the system here is built upon the assumption that no one will have the guts to say anything. The Chinese simply don't have the freedom of action and the mobility that we enjoy; typically they WON'T say anything. That code of silence is a big part of the problem here. If no one says anything and no one complains (and if it isn't heard by more than just the school owner/director, it's exactly the same as no one complaining) then there will never be any reason for them to change the things the leaders find so terribly profitable and...convenient. These guys certainly aren't going to change voluntarily. Therefore things never will change.

Complain about the weasels. Praise the honest and effective ones to the skies. It's the closest thing to an input we have here. And sometimes it actually works.

Complaining may mean that you aren't asked to come back next year. And I'm very cool with that. If things at a place are rotten, and the only response is to try and bury dissent, do you really want  to come back to that place?

I, for one, do not. Fix it or fuck it.

The opposite side to complaint, cosy up and trade in guanxi, hasn't ever worked in any substantial way for me.  I can't see how it really would anyway, unless you're the kind who can put enough energy into those kinds of relationships that the effect is focused and precise.  (As if.)  And complaint itself?  I think you've got to have power for complaint to be meaningful, and then it's not complaint, it's direction.  With me, specific complaint has a long history of being meaningless noise.

I think there are Chinese doing things.  I think there are people in middle and upper management who are edging things along as much as feathering their own nests.  They tend to be a bit slimy as people, but it is sometimes possible to be a part of what they're doing, usually at some payoff to them, but there you go anyway in China.  There's one guy I know here who was schmoozing me tonight because he wants a western name on his research project, but that project's outcome is meant to be a comparative study of traditional versus communicative methods.  Some classes will be getting a new style of teaching this semester.  I suppose it's a pity this same guy is the one who had to move me out of the writing teacher position for a Chinese professor, and the writing classes are where the research will be done.

Dunno.  Complaint has often seemed little more than frustrated noise because who to complain to has always been so unclear.  Write off the rest of it to culture shock.

Now if you want to start complaining about specific features of the culture itself, then that I'm all for.  (With the caveat that the complaint be in reality the growing pains of mutual understanding.  I used to do that stuff left and right and still can be heard bemoaning certain kinds of things late into the night.)

Are we talking about specific things that happen to us here or about 'the system' in general?  If we are talking about a specific act that happened to us, then I think we are talking about different things.  If we are talking about a timetable change 2 minutes before you are due to teach or a change in pay, then I think it is fine to make yourself heard.  I still wouldn't take the scream, shout, throw things, stamp on the ground route because that isn't me and in general it means we lose incredible amount of face and give the people we do it to something to kill themselves laughing about later. And most of the time it's pretty ineffective.  Generally I have found that negotiation skills, trying to find a way of understanding and having the bosses understand works pretty well. These situations I try to provide a solution - not just a complaint that they have to 'fix'.

If we are talking 'system' things - I agree with CP - complaints come across as culture shock whinges and seem to demonstrate a lack of understanding. And complaining loud and long will not remove the corruption from the system, will not stop the guanxi stuff, and will not  enhance our ability to work better within the system.

I also find it interesting to speculate how different our own systems are. We can all name inefficient bosses and workplaces back home, we can all cite corrupt gov't practices, bureaucratic bungles, red tape etc, we can cry nepotism and 'jobs for the boys' when we don't get a job we apply for, we accept CEOs being given huge stock options and pay rises and 'goodbye' money to leave corporations they have stuffed up. I could go on and on.

Why do we find it so different here? 

This topic covers a lot of ground, obviously.

I can't imagine complaining about "the system" to a Chinese school administrator. That would be like the old "teaching a pig to sing" joke: it doesn't work and it annoys the pig.

I DO complain about things like students placed into my classes that speak no English and have no business being there. I complain about getting 153 students in a freshman Marketing class. I complain about having grades changed. I complain about having students who badly failed Principles of Management I summarily placed into Principles of Management II. And, oh, yes, I do complain about having my pay etc. changed.

It is quite possible to complain about these things without screaming and throwing things. I usually manage to make my case relatively calmly but firmly...but in front of multiple concerned parties. I absolutely do not in any way cooperate with weasel behavior.
However, if you try to cheat me on my pay, or alter a standing contract after the fact without my consent, when attempts to protest civilly and reasonably do not work you are going to have one ugly, angry, physically demonstrative laowai in your face.

Simply flying off the handle without trying to talk calmly first is pinhead behavior. But reasonable dialogue just doesn't always work in China.

Of course  complaining won't eliminate all the problems. But it CAN help make it more difficult and uncomfortable to continue the dishonest practices.

Back home, if you can prove wrongdoing, you can complain and have some hope of getting it fixed. In China, few complain and little is done about it. It IS different here. I don't just quietly accept weaseltry back home, either...certainly not when I have a verifiable case.

The corruption you know is controllable; chinese style corruption is different than Calgary-style.  And it's not playing the crooked game that matters, but predicting what will work and how. 

The corruption you know is controllable; chinese style corruption is different than Calgary-style.  And it's not playing the crooked game that matters, but predicting what will work and how. 

I think you have hit it on the head.  The Chinese KNOW their form of corruption, and feel it is controllable - they can predict what will and won't work.

We are not familiar with this type and so can't predict.  And so we feel it is something we can't control.  So - it's alien, we want it to be familiar because otherwise we are behind the 8-ball. So we criticise.

Back home, if you can prove wrongdoing, you can complain and have some hope of getting it fixed.

That depends.  I'm sure that the proved wrong doing of government doesn't get fixed back home (rigged elections, inaccurate WMD reports, big contracts going to mates etc), wrong-doing in big business has to go through a huge and expensive court process (toxic waste dumping, WPHS, environmental damage etc etc).  And this is just the overt stuff - not the covert - jobs not being given to the best qualified, but to friends/family, illegal migrant workers being paid less, the marginalised being imprisoned more frequently for minor crimes  - the list goes on and on.

Our own system can be as corrupt, we tend to think the justice system will protect us - but unless you have power and wealth it can be a very one-sided justice system.  We tend to think that government institutions will care for us - but again, ask the welfare recipients if they have had to jump through a million hoops and still sometimes with no outcome. We believe that our IR laws will protect us - but in almost every country the protections in the IR laws are being rolled back to enable businesses to 'compete' - ie lower their HR costs - at the expense of the people with no power - the workers. 

We complain - but ... no changes.

The corruption in our countries seems more acceptable because we grew up with it, here the change in style (if not content) throws us.

Do we have corruption in America? You bet.

But I think that’s where the comparison ends.
What separates most westerners (I think) from many people in China are the attitudes towards corruption.

Back home, if corruption is uncovered, the majority of people feel it must be addressed and eliminated. So often in China, the attitude seems to run along the lines of: “Yeah, but what can we do? We must accept it. It part of the way we do things here.”

The ‘system’ (in its present form) which is being discussed in various threads here – be it educational, government, or social – seems to be serving those “at the top” very well. Why should they push for reform as long as it keeps them soaring above the multitudes? In the U.S., the people of lower socio-economic standing will cry out against the fat cats and attempt to expose what going on and happening to them – as much as possible.

In China we often hear: “I dare not” (uttered in a number of situations). I truly understand that feeling and respect anyone’s need to protect them selves. As foreigners, we have a chance to speak out about some of the things we see and experience here. We have to be sensible (and sensitive) about it, but I know a number of my students and friends admire this attitude from me, and most foreigners. They see attitude reflected in western movies, and so they expect to see in us as well.

As I’ve said before, we cannot and should not lecture people here on how to live, but we also must not surrender our core values just because we live in a place so contaminated by cheating and corruption. It doesn’t take long for the corruption to smack us “upside the head” directly, so we might as well confront it head on when it does.

Lotus Eater, in previous threads I seem to recall that you’ve mentioned teaching higher-than-average-level students in China, in more advanced courses, yes? If so, then I must assume a significant number of your students must also be preparing for study abroad. Am I right? If so, how do you teach, prepare and warn them about plagiarism? As educators, we know how potentially serious an act of plagiarism can be in our home countries. It can bring academic careers to a screeching halt and send students packing.

In my attempts to inform and instruct rules, policies, and practices regarding plagiarism here, again, I find that most students have little or no regard for this matter. For so many years, they have functioned in an atmosphere of “anything goes” for academic “achievement,” and when that fails, bring out the bribery to solve the problem. No one has ever told them, pointedly, that grabbing essays off the internet, direct copying from scholarly or popular texts, is simply NOT acceptable.

In my limited investigation here, I have found no evidence of Chinese university instructors teaching – or even mentioning – anything with regards to plagiarism.

We have so many alternative approaches and standards to teach here – through example – and I think we don’t help anyone (students, friends, ourselves) by telling ourselves that corruption here is not much different than corruption back home.

Ahh... birddog - I'm not so sanguine about our ability to tackle corruption head on in the west. Was John Howard removed from office for lying about the 'children overboard' affair - no.  What happened re the election rigging in the US after the last 2 presidential elections?  How much power and control do lobbyists (representing big business, big lobby groups) have compared to those fighting for legislation for the good of the people? How much contrary information really gets published in our media?

We like to think we can do something about the corruption - but in effect not a lot happens.  Gov't ministers will sacrifice a couple of senior staff, the Premier might make an example of a minister - for a short period, and life goes on.  Big business still gets away with bad and corrupt practice - and if they do get hassled they merely move off-shore and local people lose jobs.  An incentive to sit down and shut up if ever there was.

We have whistle-blower protection legislation - why - because those who sought to make complaints were threatened, harassed and usually lost positions etc.  We have sexual harassment legislation - but it is used way less frequently than the number of instances would warrant - why, because the emotional cost to the individual, the work related costs to the department etc subtly encourage people not to use it - and then if it is used, it is on a permanent record for both the harasser and harassed - who is then seen as a potential trouble maker. Not a good career move. And that is in gov't which in Oz has been seen as the lead agent in 'good' work practices!!  Most women will 'grin and bear it' - much the same attitude as the Chinese.

We do make SOME moves towards anti-corruption practices - but so do the Chinese.  People make complaints at home - and they also do so here.  Civil unrest is actually way more wide-spread that China Daily or CCTV 9 would have us believe! And most of the unrest is protest against corrupt local government practices.  WE don't see it, Gov't controls the media, so we rarely hear about it - but it's there.

As for plagiarism - HELL YES!!  I fail every paper from mid-semester 1st year on that is plagiarised. I teach my classes HOW to research, acknowledge, cite, etc etc etc.   I have students who are already studying overseas and are successfully completing their programs.  They know and I enforce.

And they do know - without me telling them, that it is wrong.  I have had Chinese teachers come to me in disgust telling me about a professor who published a paper in Chinese that he had found on the internet and merely translated and called it his own.  They see this as WRONG.  We have signs all round the campus at exam time talking about honesty in exams.  Changes are happening. 

We are pretty insulated here, we hear very little of what is really happening in China, tiny bits from overseas - nothing really about what is truly happening on the ground.  I don't think we can say that nothing is changing. More open talk is occurring about the Cultural Revolution, more things are being said about corruption.

It's happening.

As always, LE, thanks for your astute comments and observations!

Your points regarding corruption back home are well taken.

Congratulations on the strides you've been making with your students regarding plagiarism! Your rigorous standards are likely playing an importnat role in their overseas academic success. Brava!

Perhaps the most important thing that is emrging here is the increased level of dialogue between FTs and students. While I've not personally witnessed similar advancements in attitudes toward cheating on the part of schools where I have been employed, I have found that students are indeed eager to discuss issues and effects regarding corruption, plagiarism, and cheating.

What's crucial is that we create a safe (as much as possible) and supportive and non-judgmental (as much as possible) classroom environment for these discussions to transpire. I have always agreed with you that students are far more aware of these problems than we sometimes believe. They need proper outlets and forums to vent, explore, and debate their feelings about what is going on around them. We owe it them to be good facilitators.

Riiiiight. Just play along, because things aren't perfect in our homes, either.


Maybe you haven't seen some of the scams I have seen in China?

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this thread to ya.
But I just don't buy that complaining won't change anything. Not buying it, because I've seen it happen too many times.

My Chinese friends complain bitterly about corruption but never to anyone in authority. There's fear. Not a Party member.... forget about it!

I do seem to recall a bunch of Chinese getting together to protest, amoung other things, corruption in government. Happened in 1989 in some big-ass square in Beijing. Ask someone under 30 about about it. If they have even heard about it they won't know anything about what happened, why and the result.