Experience - Reach to Teach

I have to ask, how is the recruiting agency Reach to Teach? Has anyone had good or bad experiences with them?

I only ask because there seems to be so many reputable sources (including a few people whom I have met) that say there is really nothing to complain about. I want to put them to the test here at the saloon, especially because they ARE a recruiting agency (Yes, that loathed set of words, 'recruiting agency.)

Any words on this matter?

Absolutely zero experience with them, so ignore me as you see fit!

Having looked at their website, I would say they arent really a recruiter in the normal sense. They appear to be more of a gap-year agency, looking for young, fresh, straight out of University types who are seeking a year of adventure before going back to the real world.

There are lots of companies out there that offer such services, quite often these are for volunteer positions, where Reach to Teach seem to only offer paid placements. I dont doubt many people do have a great time with them, but I dont think it would be the type of thing a serious or qualified EFL teacher would look at TBH.

They dont list any jobs...but I would guess they dont tend to have any peachy ones...and they do list long working hours (which I wouldnt really like)

Standard answer from Raoul's is avoid recruiters at all costs. 

They are not looking out for your interests and will frequently screw you over.   

This sounds like a Gap Year type thing more than a typical recruiter to me too. I don't think there's anything wrong with programs like this ... if you're 18 years old. If you're an adult actually looking for a serious job there are better options.

@ Local Dialect: I dont understand what you mean?

I'm 23 and just graduated college and the pay rates they advertise are actually kind of good. What constitutes an 'adult' looking for a 'serious job'?

I suppose you are insinuating that these are not 'serious jobs'...what makes you think that? In fact, the pay rates they advertise (who knows whether they are true) actually seem alot better than the rates I have been finding through Dave ESL cafe, and ESL Jobs. So can you specify?

Thanks,
DC

Reach to Teach isn't a gap year thing. They're stipulating a lot of hours, and for that amount of hours you can get 11-12k a month for instance at language mills. As per other topics on this forum recently, you would probably find 40 hours a week too much.

As an example, let me answer your question.

My first job in China was with an EF school. Now, it actually turned out ok. However just about every word on the EF national website, every word on the information that the school sent me about the local school, and everything that the DOS I had the phone interview with was half-truth, wishful thinking, out of date or deception by omission.

As I say though, my experince was good because the DOS I actually worked for was good, and I had a good experience. EF, and more to the point Reach to Teach, say all the right things, but you would have to check out everything you say for yourself by exchanging emails with teachers. They're clearly slick and professional when it comes to marketing, but I don't think you should infer anything from that as regards the quality of their actual operation.

Another thing about my EF school. Apart from peak periods, (which in reality counted for 8 weeks of the year) we were delivering 14-16 actual hours of teaching. This was very tiring for everybody. I mean, it was ok, and for the most part we enjoyed what we did, but with teaching children, more than 20 hours a week is, IMHO, untenable for any length of time.

If you can't get a job with a UNi, and it's the wrong time of year for that even if you have the exp + quals, then there are some good language mill jobs out there. I just don't know how many. On the other hand there's lots of bad ones, and if you can't be picky, then taking jobs in China becomes a bit more risky, though there are of course ways to manage the risk.

I would almost be inclined to take the risk and work at a language mill, but the prospect of having my pay late or being manipulate / coerced into certain things makes me want to stay away from them.

what is this way you speak of - 'managing risk'?

PS. Thanks for the concise opinions on my question

@ Local Dialect: I dont understand what you mean?

I'm 23 and just graduated college and the pay rates they advertise are actually kind of good. What constitutes an 'adult' looking for a 'serious job'?

I suppose you are insinuating that these are not 'serious jobs'...what makes you think that? In fact, the pay rates they advertise (who knows whether they are true) actually seem alot better than the rates I have been finding through Dave ESL cafe, and ESL Jobs. So can you specify?

Thanks,
DC

DC, if Reach to Teach were a Gap Year thing (I was looking at this site http://reach-to-teach.org/, by the way, which seems to be focused on India, but I realize now there is another Reach to Teach as well!) then 23 year old college graduates wouldn't be their target audience. "Gap Year" is a term used for the year between high school and college that lots of European and Australian kids take to travel around. It isn't common in the States. There are a lot of programs out there that are aimed at these kids, so that they can do something constructive with their Gap Year rather than just backpacking through Thailand. I wasn't implying anything about you or our situation and I've never taken a job with Reach to Teach so I don't know whether they are serious or not, but most Gap Year programs are more about the experience, a sort of working holiday thing, than they are about finding people serious jobs.

The other Reach to Teach (and I guess that's the one you're talking about) is just a straight up recruiter and you can't trust recruiters. You might luck out and get a decent job but you're taking a huge risk mostly because you don't know where specifically they're going to send you ahead of time so you really don't have any way of checking out the school for yourself. They are also taking money straight out of your pocket by charging the school a fee which would otherwise be a part of your salary.

IMO, you'd be much better off with a training school like EF than with a recruiter.

You might need to post a link to the 'reach to teach' you refer too.

The site I looked at looked like a company offering gap-year type programs. Yes, they were paid...but the site didnt advertise jobs per se, but appeared to try to be selling an experience. I didnt see a single advert for a position, but sweeping generalised statements suggesting what a wonderful experience teaching in China is.

I dont think serious or experienced teachers would use them simply as they dont list or advertise any jobs. That leaves the site catering only for people new to EFL and seeking an easy route into China, with support etc etc.

Good point nicenight - http://www.reachtoteachrecruiting.com/. What are people opinions of ThIS program?

Seondly, I just got this email from a reach to teach representative.
 
Thank you for contacting us at Reach To Teach.
 -----------
We have a number of excellent placements throughout the year and seeing as your planned arrival date is quite a way off yet we would say it�s too early to get your application underway.
 
We therefore suggest you contact us approximately 3 months before you plan to arrive.  This will provide you and us with ample time to schedule your interview, answer your questions and ultimately discuss upcoming placements with you.  Please also note that the requirements for teaching in China have recently changed. You know need to have two years of work experience post graduation and a TEFL certification.
-------------

Pretty crappy. She misspelled now, put know instead. Also, I need to have two years experience before I can even go to China? WTF?

Does this knowledge preclude me from all universities in China? Have my hopes and dreams just been shattered?

Yep, that was the Reach to Teach i was talking about.

Given that it appears to be run by ex-teachers, it may be quite good, but as per my original post, it doesn't matter what they say; it matters what they actually do. I think that there would be room for an organisation that truly does conscientiously and professionally match prospective teachers with employers, and support both parties. It works in other fields of business. I'm just not convinved that anybody has ever done it so far, because it's easy to make a quick buck from recruiting, but hard to do it properly. Sometimes they end up more like Nigerian Lottery Emailers than Employment Agencies.


Anyway, the 2 years experience is rubbish, and it's a bit dishonest for them to tell you that it's a requirement, although I think it makes sense for them to try to get teachers with these quals / exp. If they think that they can locate enough, all power to them, but they lose marks either for dishinesty or believing the latest 'requirement' to emerge from SAEFA (Chinese government education bigwigs). They come up with new ideas all the time, few of which ever actually seem to be implemented at ground level across the country. Even those that are (such as the 5 year rule) often morph into 'guidance' or 'advice'. This is simply because China is big; I mean really motherf@@king big. Would you like to try establishing national regulations?

i agree with Local dialect that the simplest (though not only) way forward for you at the moment is with a training school, (aka language mill etc). It's my belief that EF are the best (albeit of a bad bunch). This is based on the fact that occasionally people (for instance myself) have nice things to say about isolated EF schools. I'm not sure I've ever heard of someone having a positive experience with Web or Shane. One of the other saloon members seems to be happy with Wall St English.

However, you need to find a job or school that matches you.

So, with EF you are very unlikely to be paid late. What type of coercion exactly are you afraid of? One doesn't get everything one's way even in the best jobs, but I'd guess most people understand give and take. I think that a more common problem could be categorised as employers 'taking the piss' a topic covered in a topic called soemthing like 'Things I won't do for work' which basically boils down to the fact that in a work relationship where there's a reasonable degree of respect, it's possible to politely say no.

As for risk management, at its simplest level it means figuring out what could go wrong, and having a plan for it beforehand; rather than reacting once things have gone to s@@t.

Step 1
Identify what could go wrong, and decide what risks can be avoided completely
Step 2
Decide whether these sould be big or small problems
Step 3
Decide what you'll do if things do go wrong
Step 4
Write down
Decide and write down what you'll do now to avoid things going wrong in the future
Step 5
Look at and review your plan once you've been in your new job for a week.

A word o warning. Doing this could make you scared stiff. As a manager I had to do this all the time, but you have to comfort yourself with the thought that it's unlikely that everything can go wrong, but if it does you'll be as prepared as you can be. So

Step 6
Relax, and lap in the excitement of, your words not mine. your hopes and dreams coming true.

One last thing; put yuourself in the place of the employer, and be careful how you present yourself. If you want a job with a good school, you need to be able to prove to them that you're worth taking the risk with, because like it or not, you are a risk!

Two years experience has been a standard requirement for a long time.  It now being enforced in many places. What Just Like Mr Ben said, about the two years is true where he works and in his province. It may also be true in the province you where you apply for a job. I know my university will not hire someone without teaching experience.

Places like the language mills usually don't enforce it.

I would recommend you get a TEFL certificate, preferable a CELTA.  A TEFL certificate was not really necessary before, but it is becoming more important. This training, if it is a good course (not online), will give you class room experience and will definitely help you get a job.

Also, have you ever tutored anyone, helped a friend with a course at school?  Have you ever taught anything, like swimming, painting, gardening?  Were you in boy scouts and if so, did you help the new scouts learn a skill? ALL these thing can be used as teaching experience.  It does not say teaching in a classroom, it says teaching.  

While you are waiting, volunteer at a new immigrant place to help them learn English. This will give you experience teaching people from other countries.

That was the site I looked at too. I just copied a phrase from the homepage which (IMO) shows they are more keen on placing people for an experience rather than a career.

"An English teaching job abroad is a great way to grow as an individual and differentiate yourself from your peers no matter where your long-term career interests lie. Living and teaching English abroad is a tremendous learning experience and a great way to add an international element to your resume!"

I feel they are definitely looking at people seeking a one year adventure away from home, akin to a gap year. Nothing wrong with that of course, if thats your thing. It isnt mine.

Ive looked again at the China page, and I cant find a link to a single job, just these general overviews. It isnt a site I would use for this reason. I have looked at recruiter sites before and the few Ive looked at offer 'Uni position in XXX province starting XXX. Ma holder preferred to teach general and academic English' etc etc.

I know the two year rule has been mentioned in this thread and also Wall Street English. I dont have much info on the two year rule...but I was declined a chance to even interview for Wall Street because of the two year rule. Some training centres are quite strict on this. More so than you may imagine.

You see .... I have around 5 years documented EFL experience, a Trinity Cert TESOL, and a degree. WSE declined my application because although I have lots of experience, at the time of applying, I didnt have two years POST DEGREE experience. I did my degree via distance learning while teaching and couldnt log the two years as they required. 

So, with EF you are very unlikely to be paid late. What type of coercion exactly are you afraid of? One doesn't get everything one's way even in the best jobs, but I'd guess most people understand give and take.

The coercion I talk about: A school lowering my pay, putting me on a probationary period, or forcing me to move to an apartment with no heat in the middle of winter because I wont do something .. etc.

What is EF like? I am looking to make like 900 USD a month so will EF fulfill this requirement? What should I expect from an EF school?

Here's another tangent: theres a school in beijing that is offering to pay for my TEFL certificate and the salary is decent. Should getting my TEFL paid for be a  big attraction..I figured I could stay with them for a little while (pay my dues) and then move on but use the new TEFL to make me more attractive in future jobs