Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The BS-Wrestling Pit => Topic started by: Calach Pfeffer on March 20, 2013, 02:19:27 PM
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I have wondered, is it possible they actually TEACH drivers to honk horns like that?! That'd be stupid, wouldn't it. But it seems like no, they do teach it.
There's a driving school set up just off the far end of the campus I live on. From my rooftop eyrie I can see over the wall into where they pile students into training cars and make them drive in slow circles. And honk. From 7 am to 5 pm, that same little parping honk joins my day, every day, irregularly, yet seemingly every 30 seconds or so. Horns are being taught not as safety devices, but as driving tools.
This is madness.
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When I first came to China I found the ebike horns more annoying, now I ride about a lot I am constantly wishing that I had a horn.
Likewise my wife got a car last year and we always used to complain about the amount of horns but now every time we go anywhere another driver will inevitably cut us off or do something moronic and she will beep like a taxi driver!
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Yeah the learners (with instructor in front and 2 or 3 mates in the back) used to go out on the quiet empty roads near my out-of-town uni, and they would still also honk all the time. Eventually I decided they were honking at me, because I was the only other thing around...a pedestrian, 100 meters away...and on the pavement.
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I kid you not, once in a taxi with no other car in sight, my driver started blasting away for no apparent reason. I gently removed his hands from the horn and placed mine over my ears while making a distressed face. He understood yet still laughed at me.
My g/f often tells drivers to ease off on the horn
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This is madness.
This... is...
CHINA!
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It will be. Replace car horns with, say, missile lock and I think we get a just fabulous picture of how international relations are going to go in the future. THESE PEOPLE ARE LEARNING THIS NOW AND WE ARE DONE FOR!
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I wish more e-bike riders would use the horns! I don't know how many times I have turned around while walking and narrowly missed one of these silent killers. What I really don't like though, is walking on the pavement/sidewalk and being beeped from behind, especially by a car! (That's really beep as in "she beeped her horn", not the moderator *beep*.)
Where I'm from in the USA, I've actually heard of people getting fined for "non-emergency honking" or something like that. I remember thinking that was ridiculous. Now not so much.
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I wish more e-bike riders would use the horns! I don't know how many times I have turned around while walking and narrowly missed one of these silent killers. What I really don't like though, is walking on the pavement/sidewalk and being beeped from behind, especially by a car! (That's really beep as in "she beeped her horn", not the moderator *beep*.)
Where I'm from in the USA, I've actually heard of people getting fined for "non-emergency honking" or something like that. I remember thinking that was ridiculous. Now not so much.
It's one of my 'PREACH!' things
In most EU countries you can be fined for misusing your horn and full beam lights, so noone does it. In China you can't so everyone does. It isn't like it's some part of the Chinese character, it's just that people are allowed to get away with it (Spain and Italy used to be worse drivers than Chinese until they took road safety seriously)
Horns are for emergencies, not to provide a commentary on other people's driving asasasasas
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...
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The absence of sirens is not indicative of an absence of emergencies. Consider that for a moment.
Meanwhile, the horns are the first trump of the apocalypse. The behaviour is becoming more pronounced and I believe it to be spreading to other devices and conditions. I have witnessed this small town go from a place of widely empty boulevards with potholes that could swallow a man to a grimly cheek-by-jowled site of development infested by dogs, children and the rich. Buildings bloom like moulds. They decimate their surrounds. Small restaurants are nearly all gone.
The horns did it. It was the horns. And the local government.
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It's not just drivers. pedestrians would need to be more educated about horns too. In countryside and even suburban kinds or areas with less traffic, pedestrians would be splattered all over the roads if not for the "I'm barrelling right up your ass" honking.
Where I am, horn use is not commentary on other peoples' driving, it's used to alert drivers, riders and pedestrians of the car's presence. A taxi driver leaning on his horn so that the lady carrying her baby will notice and not step out onto the road. That kind of thing.
I wish the mopeds on the sidewalks would use their horn more actually. I've recently taken out two of them, just because I had no idea they were coming up behind me. The first because I took a step sideways to avoid a puddle and the second when I turned to point across the street. Down they went, and my arm is still a little sore.
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It's one of my 'PREACH!' things
In most EU countries you can be fined for misusing your horn and full beam lights, so noone does it.
Horns don't bother me, I can see that they might result in better road safety, as aggressive as they might be.
However, full-beam lights are FUCKING OBNOXIOUS.
Pardon my French but I HATE THEM.
It's complete 'as long as I can see clearly who cares about anybody else' selfishness and/or ignorance.
I'm still seeing stars right now from my cycle home. asasasasas
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I'm with Fozz. I've tuned out the horns. They only really bother me when someone honks from right behind me. But brights? They are actually really dangerous because they can blind/distract the driver on the other side. Asshole drivers with their stupid brights, that's some real bullshit right there.
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China has a lot of people. In the countryside and suburban areas, I'm sure people could be employed to walk ahead of cars with some kind of warning flag.
I can't tune out the horns. The dimwits around here bring it home with them. The teachers drive five minutes to work and honk at every student, bike, and car they come near, which is all of them.
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How 'bout the volume of the horns on some of those buses? Those things will make you shit a pickle if you're close.
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Those things will make you shit a pickle if you're close.
ahahahahah ahahahahah bkbkbkbkbk
shit a pickle ahahahahah ahahahahah
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How 'bout the volume of the horns on some of those buses? Those things will make you shit a pickle if you're close.
Haha and blow your ear drums too. I managed to block out the cars horns before moving to Shanghai, now it sometimes gets annoying if they go through the night I'm having trouble getting to sleep.
I agree about the Scooters, today I was looking up at some traffic lights and edging forward to cross the road, for some reason the scooter guy coming towars me didn't want to honk. On this occasion I turned my head just in time.
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High beams are bad, however, I think buses and taxi's driving at night without ANY lights is the very worst. You can't see the buggers coming at all. llllllllll asasasasas asasasasas
I think it was worst in Wuxi, I didn't notice it as much in Dalian.
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I've recently taken out two of them, just because I had no idea they were coming up behind me. The first because I took a step sideways to avoid a puddle and the second when I turned to point across the street. Down they went, and my arm is still a little sore.
I'd kill for that opportunity. Literally.
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I've recently taken out two of them, just because I had no idea they were coming up behind me. The first because I took a step sideways to avoid a puddle and the second when I turned to point across the street. Down they went, and my arm is still a little sore.
I'd kill for that opportunity. Literally.
I didn't take them out on purpose. uuuuuuuuuu
They both tried to avoid me.
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After a little over a year in China I've come to the conclusion the object of life is to make as much noise as possible, be it: blowing your horn, yelling into your phone or pre-enacting WW3 with fireworks 24/7/365.
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The thing about car horns though is they are by design grating and distressing. They are meant to be offensive to the ear and spirit the better to have you notice and react. If they sounded, say, like classical piano or violins, that'd be different. Chinese could cotinue with this grand social symphony they're making and the world would be abetter place for their efforts.
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I've recently taken out two of them, just because I had no idea they were coming up behind me. The first because I took a step sideways to avoid a puddle and the second when I turned to point across the street. Down they went, and my arm is still a little sore.
I'd kill for that opportunity. Literally.
I didn't take them out on purpose. uuuuuuuuuu
They both tried to avoid me.
Some people have greatness thrust upon them.
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The thing about car horns though is they are by design grating and distressing. They are meant to be offensive to the ear and spirit the better to have you notice and react. If they sounded, say, like classical piano or violins, that'd be different. Chinese could cotinue with this grand social symphony they're making and the world would be abetter place for their efforts.
Ditto for car alarms
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The thing about car horns though is they are by design grating and distressing. They are meant to be offensive to the ear and spirit the better to have you notice and react. If they sounded, say, like classical piano or violins, that'd be different. Chinese could cotinue with this grand social symphony they're making and the world would be abetter place for their efforts.
Ditto for car alarms
Scooter alarms. DON'T forget SCOOTER ALARMS.
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I seem to recall that bicycles used to have a non-grating, inoffensive little bell - only to be rung to warn pedestrians that the rider was about to swoop past at dangerous speeds.
Technically, using one's horn can result in a 200 RMB find in downtown Dongguan. The warning signs have been in place for years. I think it's the city's way to being able to collect a few billion RMB in a single day if there's ever a serious fiscal crisis.
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Aye Stil makes a good point about pedestrians, they are even more annoying than cars
It's a total mystery how some of these people in their 30s and 40s are still alive despite not understanding the need to look before you cross a busy road or bike lane
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Long, long ago, the way cars used the road was different. People would walk wherever they damn pleased--sightlessly, drunkenly, normally, whatever--and car drivers avoided them. It was a feature of riding a bike that anticipating where a car might end up next was function of knowing where pedestrians where rather than sighting painted lines upon the road. Cars veered and wobbled and shot around everywhere, but there was system to their lunacy and it was relatively easy to pick up.
These days the worst of those habits persist, such as driving on the wrong side of the road because it's easier than making a u-turn, but swerving around people has been replaced by honking. The cars too move faster and are more numerous.
I believe that in these patterns of road use we can see the future.
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I believe that in these patterns of road use we can see the future.
Piles of twisted metal and flesh, I presume. aqaqaqaqaq
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They should replace car horns with the brown note so that you'll know to get out of the way when you feel a spasm in your bowels and the warm trickle of diarrhea running down your pants.
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There was a trend a couple of years back of extremely loud fake sirens so the driver sounded like a police car, those seem to have gone at least.
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It's a total mystery how some of these people in their 30s and 40s are still alive despite not understanding the need to look before you cross a busy road or bike lane
Anybody know someone who works in the hospitals and sees the results first-hand? I'd be very curious to know the mortality/maiming rates here compared to other countries.
Good thing China has no handicapped people or they'd be in big trouble.
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Good thing China has no handicapped people or they'd be in big trouble.
I take it you're being facetious?
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Good thing China has no handicapped people or they'd be in big trouble.
My observations at the Casino and around the City are that a lot of these folk are in Australia. aoaoaoaoao
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I think in China a lot of what you can't see, like corruption or organization in the business and government world or family relations, is firmly on display in cars. The relationship dynamics and available personal stances are right there--grab power, push others aside, organise by excluding, trumpet, break, fall over and shout. It'd be bizarre if the way people construct road etiquette somehow managed to be unrelated to basic notions of persons and rights and what opportunity means. If cars don't show us how people related, they do show us how systems are built.
/stretch
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It's a total mystery how some of these people in their 30s and 40s are still alive despite not understanding the need to look before you cross a busy road or bike lane
Anybody know someone who works in the hospitals and sees the results first-hand? I'd be very curious to know the mortality/maiming rates here compared to other countries.
It was several years ago, but I read in Xinhua that the leading cause of death in China was lung cancer, followed by vehicular accidents.
I had an air horn for my bicycle until an older chinese man broke it because he needed to demonstrate how impressed he was and it's better to grab a plastic mounting bracket than the handlebar grips, don't you know. Anyway, the horn was awesome! Even cars paid attention to me. It was the greatest guilty pleasure of all time. All time!
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I think in China a lot of what you can't see, like corruption or organization in the business and government world or family relations, is firmly on display in cars. The relationship dynamics and available personal stances are right there--grab power, push others aside, organise by excluding, trumpet, break, fall over and shout. It'd be bizarre if the way people construct road etiquette somehow managed to be unrelated to basic notions of persons and rights and what opportunity means. If cars don't show us how people related, they do show us how systems are built.
/stretch
Agreed. It shows how they prioritize position above rules or right and wrong, which they learn from their hierarchical system. If my vehicle is more powerful and my position is superior, then eff-you, buddy. Fairness, efficiency, safety, right of way, etc. are not in the matrix of contingencies. However, they do respond to traffic fines and vehicular confiscation, which is just a stick, sort of artificial, and not a real understanding of why it makes sense to do X instead of Y.
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Kind of off topic but anyone notice how some cars (usually big expensive suv) with the special number plates can ignore traffic lights if they feel like it. I have seen this on a number of occasions when cars stop at a red light and they just carry on like it was not there. Granted that usually the traffic was quite light but still.
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I think in China a lot of what you can't see, like corruption or organization in the business and government world or family relations, is firmly on display in cars. The relationship dynamics and available personal stances are right there--grab power, push others aside, organise by excluding, trumpet, break, fall over and shout. It'd be bizarre if the way people construct road etiquette somehow managed to be unrelated to basic notions of persons and rights and what opportunity means. If cars don't show us how people related, they do show us how systems are built.
/stretch
I just think it's due to the fact that there are 20 more cars than there were 10 years ago.
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But there's 20 more of everything. The roads show us how it all works.
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By far the most stupidly awesome thing about teaching students to drive here is they don't chase out the stray dogs. The dogs collect in the big open area where they train the drivers because it's secluded, bounded by a wall, the lake, and a small tree-filled hill, and presumably just because no one does chase them out. So right now I'm witnessing drivers driving slowly in circles, dogs chasing fucking cars and barking at each other, and then drivers honking at dogs.
Love this country
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I can just see the dogs sitting around under a big ol' elm tree, drinking tea, smoking and playing Chinese chess. They have a sign under their necks saying:
WILL ALLOW YOU TO HONK AT ME FOR FOOD
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I'd quite like to see a video of this.
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Horns continue honking.
I believe it has worsened. People always did honk in the past, but some new, more widespread culture of preemptive honking has evolved.
Partly, I insist, it's because Chinese don't know how to drive--where an actual driver uses caution, they use horns.
But more, there's a diabolical insistence on urban designs that forces cars and pedestrians into the same space. I'd be willing to bet that all across China if you go to any university, and probably any campus style environment for any kind of factory or institution, you'll find a system of gates and guards that make cars and people use literally the same entry way.
And they want China to develop a consumer culture? WHEN THEY BUY ALL THE THINGS, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PUT THEM?!
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They can keep them in their cars.
Horns continue honking.
I stayed in a small town of 300,000 about two hours outside of a big city and there was one main road. The town had been selected as some kind of development area so they were getting upgrades. The main road was lit up as bright as the Las Vegas strip at night, which is good for auto safety, but on a perfectly straight, level road, a few less watts would be okay. Anyway, you can get shades for your windows; it's good for the local economical.
The taxis were the only cars in town. It was so early in the upgrade process that even the local officials didn't have private cars. And can you guess what the taxis did while they were driving down a perfectly straight, level, wide road, lit up like the light side of the moon at 3 AM? They honked all the way down the street. Nice, loud, intermittent and irregular blasts every couple of seconds, all the way down the street, all night long. Come 4:30 or 5:00 am, people began opening their loud, metal, rolling security doors. Earplugs don't quite do the trick.
It reminds me of Peter Hessler's first book about life in a small town in Sichuan, where the taxi drivers had horn buttons on the top of their gear shifts they actuated with their thumbs and tooted constantly.
But more, there's a diabolical insistence on urban designs that forces cars and pedestrians into the same space...you'll find a system of gates and guards that make cars and people use literally the same entry way.
The university where I worked for four years has over 20,000 students and a main gate with about 10 parking spaces, with absolutely zero public parking inside. Wait, they made some nice, new basketball courts recently with about 8 parking spaces at the back of the uni.
Every time there's a graduation or a major event, they allow people to drive their cars into the uni and park wherever they like, which is fine 'cause there are wide roads inside that can accommodate cars that are parallel parked. There are no signs anywhere to indicate if a certain section allows or disallows parking. Every time this happens, there are cars that park in places that are decided by the guards hours later to be incorrect and they slap boots on them and then you have to pay the guards a couple of hundred yuan to get them removed.
These are guards who run the front gate like Checkpoint Charlie on the Berlin Wall. They force 20,000 students coming and going each day through a gap that's less than two meters wide, and that includes bicycle traffic.
And they want China to develop a consumer culture? WHEN THEY BUY ALL THE THINGS, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO PUT THEM?!
Maybe they can keep things in their cars, like rolling storage units.
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There is nothing to be done about taxi drivers. They are miserable thieving thugs with their eyes on a prize that has little to do with urban infrastructure and more to do with ruthlessly horrible work conditions imposed by their bosses. We might as well ask teamsters to be nice.
But nouveau private car owners.... that's a different story. They are right now building the inadequate and intrusive owner/driver culture that China will be joyously own for the rest of her modern history.
I find it instructive, in a depressing and uninteresting way, to observe that, around here, the people doing all that are teachers.
Every month or so there are collisions inside the campus. One slow moving vehicle rams another and crushes a fender then everyone stands around with their telephones. Every accident occurs where people walk. I mean that literally. Every day, because there is no other path between dormitory, village, and classroom, people put their feet and bodies where cars crush one another.
I am unsure why Chinese universities set themselves up for lawsuits this way. Perhaps because there are no lawsuits.
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Not sure if it's yyyyyyyyyy
or bgbgbgbgbg
but I'm sure you'll say dddddddddd
As a scientist, I have noted a trend in your posts lately:
Loud dogs at night
Incessant car horns
And an exorbitant number of screaching pidgeons
You don't like noise or you're easily pissed off
Me: I'm both
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Yodelling neighbours too.
I used to think it was a music teacher, but it's not. IT"S MUSIC STUDENTS! Some teacher does extra tuition at home. Teacher goes ding on the piano and the student hollers out the same note. It is not in the least bit beautiful nor musical. When these basketball player sized girls actually sing, though how they can with jeans that tight and heels that high, they sound great... and very much reduced in volume.
And for the love of jessu in his baby crib, A DRUMMER! THERE'S A GIODDAMN DRUMMER SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE! The only good thing about Chinese drummers is they can't keep it up. This supposed musician does 45 second solos and then takes a break.
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One of my buddies has lion dancing "drummers" next to him. How would you like such people practicing the same riff for 30-60 minutes every day?
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Good thing you aren't in Japan: Taiko Drummers
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While I'm sure it's true I could be suffering more than I am, I shall not be encouraging such discussion for FEAR OF ALERTING THE GODS WHO SHOULD PREFERABLY STAY SLEEPING!
Meanwhile, rain seems to be the answer. A tropical downpour seems quite to stem the noise-making instincts of the local population. Perhaps there is some yin/yang action at work.
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Doubly auspicious rainfall.
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Ladles and jelly beans,
we should pay more attention to what happens on campuses. Teachers are the quintessential middle class. They're ones who embody the stability pact with the government: the gov gets to stay in power and the middle class gets to have things. And what these model citizens do now is where the future society comes from.
And we, by the way, are them too.
Meanwhile, there is no law granting drivers extra rights, is there? That'd be a bizarre way to run an urban environment, but the horns seem to indicate a belief in some extra privilege. Or are they just not aware of systems outside their own comfort?
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Meanwhile, there is no law granting drivers extra rights, is there? That'd be a bizarre way to run an urban environment, but the horns seem to indicate a belief in some extra privilege. Or are they just not aware of systems outside their own comfort?
On the other hand (I have 5 fingers and) there's another viewpoint. Drivers ARE quite limited as to the privileges allotted. A car horn for some is their only tool, be it a weapon, siren, warning, or toy.
Not endorsing nor justifying, just giving 'em the facts ma'am. Personally, I'd like to rig a big fat greaseless dildo so that when they use the horn they will know it!
aoaoaoaoao
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If horns are outlawed, only outlaws will have horns.
In fact, there's a pretty good case for horns as home defense. Keep a bullhorn by the bed, and attach sirens to window bars. Hell, make doorbells that toot! Personal horns could be carried at all times. If you and old nainai are approaching the kitchen doorway at the same time, whip out a horn and let the old cow know you're there. "OH," she'll yell, "I DIDN"T SEE YOU THERE! I"M SO GLAD YOU HAD THE FORETHOUGHT AND KINDNESS TO TAMADE HONK AT ME INSIDE MY OWN HOUSE, WHY DON'T YOU GO ON AHEAD OF ME>"
I wouldn't though. She'd have her own horn at the ready.
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I wouldn't though. She'd have her own horn at the ready.
Guess she's horny too. bhbhbhbhbh
Whole different thread
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Revel in the beauty:
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Car_Horn_Sounds
Car horns! In Your Own HOUSE!
You know what... I'm putting those sounds on my phone.
Sweet jesus, there's already apps on Google Play.
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One of my neighbors is learning to use a Chinese zither. The first time I heard her practicing, she'd play for a moment and stop, over and over. At first, I thought someone was watching Kung Fu Hustle with the sound turned way up.
She's actually getting pretty good at it now.
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At first, I thought someone was watching Kung Fu Hustle with the sound turned way up.
You owe me a new laptop. I snorted milk tea all over my keyboard. Thanks. Thanks a lot. ananananan
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Motorised transport makes you more important. This cannot be denied. But I think we owe it to the Chinese to tell them about horns. Just as cars are a measure of personal importance, a horn is a girlish shriek. So don't let yourself down, China! Be a man!
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I often wonder, when they review their learning practises, if I could set up my own 'UK' style driving school, I'd make a fortune, methinks!
400,000 miles with no points or crashes is a good stat!
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Car horns used 40 times more often in China than in Europe (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1276429/car-horns-used-40-times-more-often-china-europe)
"In Europe, a car horn is used 10,000 times on average," Pierre Frederic Lebelle, head of the company's Shanghai-based China Tech Centre, told Le Monde newspaper. "In China, it's 400,000 times."
Peugeot is not the only carmaker adapting its horns to Chinese tastes. US carmaker Ford came up with an electronic horn for its Chinese customers, wrote motoring blogger Nooralia Zaharin, because they "drive with one hand on the steering wheel and one hand on the horn … they want it to sound melodic".
Plainly, it's not 400,000 miles they want.
And that thing about melodic? Yeah, that's not working.
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The wife and I were laughing about this topic this morning, and maybe there is something we are missing, but for the life of us we can't figure out the reasoning behind some of this incessant honking.
For example, I live in new construction down a side road, so for roughly a mile or so there is nothing but cement walls and almost no turn-offs or driveways. Despite the fact that the road is almost completely empty of traffic, and there are almost no intersections to speak of, drivers lay on their horns anyway. They just drive down the road hand on horn. It's just non-stop honking. I'd understand if the road was busy, or if there were a reasonable amount of mammoth trucks barreling out of the dirt roads, but no - there isn't anything of the sort.
Maybe they are just trying to liven up an otherwise boring dirt road?
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I was thrilled to see very few cars in Male Maldives. I thought, great, no horn honking. Then I noticed for a population of about 150,000 people, there were about 3 million motorbikes. Like a Bollywood movie, these guys honk in unison!
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My understanding of the horning is, aside from just picking up the behaviour from others, they're trying to manage their environments. Compared to what happens on Chinese roads, people in other countries operate like precision teams - they obey lane conventions, they sit on the one speed limit, they stop at lights, they even indicate. Chinese driving, which is increasing in speed, is developing horn conventions instead.
And since it's more or less only horn conventions, and not anything else, they're stupid conventions. Like approaching from left rear and planning to both overtake and then turn in front of - that's horn time.
I think they do all this to positively avoid the creation of social institutions that grant other people right of way. Thus on the roads as in all other aspects of Chinese culture.
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I think that last post by CP is about right: there is a reason to honk in many situations, it's just not a GOOD reason. And Tree: just because there are no obvious places for cars, e-bikes, tractors, tuk-tuks or other vehicles to ingress onto the road, doesn't mean they aren't going to appear just in front of you! Stuff comes from outa nowhere in China. Look both ways before crossing and you're going to die because you forgot the other ways to look.
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So the freshmen are here, being taught at length how to stand on one foot and have heatstroke. They're clogging the roads less than usual too. Either the military trainers have been asked to keep the roads clear or there's fewer freshers than usual. but still they get on the roads and teachers honk at them to get out of the way. I find that vaguely disturbing. I mean, sure, they're a horde of iggnant rice-fed post-secondary children, but they're in uniform.
What are the teachers learning by doing this? What are they teaching? I need to see a therapist.
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As for right of way, non cars have priority, so if a car hits a moron who wasn't looking, still the cars fault. Money changes hands so police aren't involved.... Cue honking at everything! But in reality, the Chinese ignore the honking anyway as the car will stop, making honking totally redundant. Glad I worked out the subway and bus routes so I can ignore the chaos!
I thought the Chinese had nerves of steel, but now I know they are simply lemmings.....! Splat!