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AE? BE? WTF??

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gonzo

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AE? BE? WTF??
« on: October 07, 2012, 11:44:55 AM »
If your students [usually the intense ones with glasses who sit in the front row] ever ask you, "which one is best, British or American English?", what is your response and why?
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becster79

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 01:10:59 PM »
British- the Yanks can't spell properly and have weird accents  ahahahahah

 :wtf:
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bobrage

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 02:50:32 PM »
If (when) I get asked that question, I begin a long rant about there being no such thing as a standard way in which English is spoken, let alone a "best" way.  

Chinese students often base their attitudes towards language on their own experiences with Mandarin, a language in which there is an officially mandated "correct way" to speak.  During their High School or Middle School career, students sit an exam to measure how standard their spoken Mandarin is and correct usage is based (of course) on what goes in Beijing.  I think the moderating body is called "The National Academy for Language and Script Work" (the Chinese version of "Le Academie de Francaise".)  

Every group of students I have spoken to about this has been slightly surprised that there aren't comparable tests in the UK and USA for native speakers.  Of course, such a test would be seen as discriminatory to us - but that's because we don't perceive variation in spoken language as a departure from a given standard.

I try to squeeze a lesson or two about global English into almost every course I teach because I am naturally a contrary person who loves to challenge preconceptions.      
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ericthered

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 03:24:13 PM »
When asked that, I lapse into exaggerated Danish accent, akin to the one used by Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Secretary-General of NATO, and explain to grinning students that, essentially, it does not matter how you say something, it is what you say that matters. Besides, how can one even talk about AE or BE? Unless you talk about RP which is, as far as I am concerned, a fake mode of speech invented by a now rather defunct upper class and only perpetuated by the BBC and makers of those abhorrently boring CD's that usually makes Listening Class a pain in the posterior. Do people in Manchester speak in the same way as people from Cornwall? Do residents of the Isle of Wight speak the same as a Cockney? Nope. AE is the same. Does a Texan sound somewhat different from a born-and-bred New Yorker? Is there a rather obvious difference between the English spoken by a Bostonian and that spoken by a chap from Minnesota? Yep, there is.
I usually tell my students that one should not try to sound like a resident of any specific country...it is much more fun to try to emulate the English spoken in various countries...usually, after that, I spend a few minutes getting them to sund like Bela Lugosi. There is an almost transcendent joy in getting 40 Chinese English students to say, "Leesten to ze Zhildreen of ze Naight, vat zweet muuzic zey make".  agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag
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Escaped Lunatic

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 04:00:49 PM »
I told them that English is for communication.  If they insisted on really having to pick a style, I told them to consider what country they intended to do the most business with.

World Standard English, as spoken by it's living avatar, Raoul, is of American extraction.  If you don't speak World Standard English, you talk funny.  ahahahahah

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gonzo

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 04:55:45 PM »
Quote from: ericthered on October 07, 2012, 03:24:13 PM
Do people in Manchester speak in the same way as people from Cornwall? Do residents of the Isle of Wight speak the same as a Cockney? Nope. AE is the same. Does a Texan sound somewhat different from a born-and-bred New Yorker? Is there a rather obvious difference between the English spoken by a Bostonian and that spoken by a chap from Minnesota? Yep, there is.
.  agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag

We know this, but to them its all the same: AE and BE. Just like to the unpracticed ear, all Chinese is the same. Chinese students can only believe there's one correct answer, as that's the way they are taught. Ever tried to explain that two items in their CET4 practice book could be correct, and in the next question none of them are? They don't find that believable, so they go and ask a Chinese English teacher who gives them the "right" answer! CCTV9 newsreaders tend to ape the AE model. I wish they'd just speak English instead of trying to pretend.

Research done in Hawaii shows most locals think that Brit tourists are Australians, based on accent, not passport. Regional accents/dialects in GB are fading away; even Scots appear on mainstream BBC TV news, and one was Dr. Who not long ago.

Eric, your Danish PM speaks damn good accent-less English, and so does that Princess Mary, and she's from Tasmania, or Van Deimann's Land as the Dutch speaking locals still call it.
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ericthered

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2012, 06:00:08 PM »
Ok, sure, I am sure you are much better at judging how Anders Fogh Rasmussen speaks...and he is not the PM anymore, FYI.
I do know how the Chinese education system works, Gonzo, I am actually a teacher in China. Thus, I do not buy into the whole "This how they think, this is how they are taught" malarkey..It is true that you describe the essential mindset of the educational system, but then it is up to us, the teachers, to teach them something different.
Thus, when a student asks about AE or BE, it is up to us teachers to show them that what they are asking about does not exist.
I agree with the CCTV9 comment...that is one of the many reasons I do not watch that channel  agagagagag
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"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.
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NATO

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2012, 06:34:35 PM »
Quote from: Escaped Lunatic on October 07, 2012, 04:00:49 PM
I told them that English is for communication.  If they insisted on really having to pick a style, I told them to consider what country they intended to do the most business with.

World Standard English, as spoken by it's living avatar, Raoul, is of American extraction.  If you don't speak World Standard English, you talk funny.  ahahahahah



And if you do, you talk funny too. Catch 22.
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The Local Dialect

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2012, 06:54:53 PM »
I tell them it doesn't matter and that basically, no matter which English they choose to ape, they will never sound anything other than Chinese. It is ok that they sound Chinese though, just like it is ok for an Indian to sound Indian, a Mexican like a Mexican. That's the nature of  speaking a foreign language. This is generally a hangup most of them get past once they reach a certain level of proficiency.
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Calach Pfeffer

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2012, 07:12:39 PM »
Those few times I've been asked this, it's usually been by people who already have a quite clear preference.

I mostly just say I have no idea. Because I don't. People do make assumptions based on the way you sound and I don't know what effect leaning more toward one accent over another has on the listener of a Chinese speaker.



Imma go out on a limb: USAnain accented Chinese English sounds fake. The Brits have had a bigger historical presence in or near China, and sounding like a Hong Konger implies an authentic sophistication.

(But give it 10 years and AmerEng will be the norm. Maybe even 5 years.)
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Canadapanda

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2012, 08:29:10 PM »
Why not have the best of both worlds and go with Canadian English?  We use British spelling with American pronunciation.  :)

The American (monetary based) dominance over popular culture and media is, I think, the main source of this misconception.  If American English is all you ever hear, what are you going to consider "normal"?
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ericthered

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2012, 08:46:34 PM »
Now, now, we all know that the best option would be a thick, Scottish brogue a la Groundskeeper Willie  agagagagag agagagagag
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"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.
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gonzo

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2012, 09:02:22 PM »
Quote from: ericthered on October 07, 2012, 06:00:08 PM
Ok, sure, I am sure you are much better at judging how Anders Fogh Rasmussen speaks...and he is not the PM anymore, FYI.

I don't get this. I was talking about the current PM, a female, Helle someone? ?  Anyway, she is Danish and spoke excellent Euro-English when I saw her interviewed, as is necessary in the EU.
As for the Chinese student mindset, I didn't think I was saying anything new or radical. Even though not in China these days, I've still been teaching Chinese high school kids for the last 8 years.

I seem to be making enemies here these days. Beam me up Raoul.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 09:23:30 PM by gonzo »
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Stil

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2012, 09:26:42 PM »
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ericthered

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Re: AE? BE? WTF??
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2012, 11:21:47 PM »
Well, Gonzo, that Helle Thorning-Schmidt speaks excellent English is true...however, you might want to tune in the next time the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Villy Soevndal, gives a speech and then you will see that good or even bearable English matters not a jot in the EU.
You are not making any enemies... agagagagag agagagagag

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"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.
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