Singled out

....... I heed the words of our late, great President, Lyndon B. Johnson: "Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in his pocket."

 

Noles' shower isn't working?

I've never thought of Noles as a Commie. But I know loves us Commies, so there is a term for it somewhere    

Ruth, I personally didn't see you attacking anyone. As I said not once - everyone is entitled to an opinion and position in life.  

Indeed. And I finally got the pockets right.

 

Indeed. And I finally got the pockets right.

Cheeky, I try really hard not to attack forum members.  My post to Hossuru was to let him know that it was possible to disagree with someone (ie. saying "I disagree with you") without attacking that person personally (ie. saying "You are a JERK for your belief.")  Only he used stronger words than 'jerk.'

I know I am in the minority here in that I really really love a good strong discussion.  Other points of view are really interesting for me.  Ruth says that

When I read an opinion vastly different from my own beliefs I just think, 'wow, opens my eyes to how others believe.'

 I go 'wow, why don't I agree with that, where is MY proof for the way I think?" and it challenges me to go thinking, hunting, researching. The different points of view here can give me a chance to expand what I know, believe etc.  So I want to thank those people who do engage in strong discussion, who do bring out good ideas, who do challenge others (and my) thinking.

I believe that I have never personally attacked people, and would never intend to attack a person - but ideas and beliefs should be open for discussion - that is what we are trying to do for our students.  If we, as teachers, can't discuss issues, we sure as hell can't teach students to discuss, think, challenge, reason.  BUT.. name calling, abuse, personal attacks are not ways of discussing, persuading or reasoning, and that is where it slides from strong discussion into stuff no-one accepts.


But... is it also something to do with the medium?  I have met a number of saloonies and for the most part,I figure that they get on pretty well in person.  Even the people we think we may not like because of their different world views, we find to be pretty reasonable people in real life.  So I wonder if it is something to do with sitting at a keyboard alone?  Instead of being in a bar chatting, with the political talkers over in the corner having a good "I love Sarah Palin' chat, and the others comparing photos of kids and dogs, and talking football and where to find the best civet juice, we sit, filled with only the words in front of us?  So these become more important and have a stronger context than they would in a social setting.  In the bar we would still offer the same opinions, but at the same time, we would tell our discussion mates - my turn to buy the drinks, we would laugh at the end of the chat and walk over to talk to others.  Here, we wait for a response to our ideas, and have no other context to put them in, so they seem to take on a deeper importance.  2 fen worth.

A discussion in person, is one moment in time. It can be tempered or inflamed with body language, vocal tone and a host of other things but the conversation takes place between the people present and then it's gone.

A discussion on a forum such as this one is recorded. You have no idea who will read or respond to it and there is no time-factor involved.

I know I am in the minority here in that I really really love a good strong discussion

I believe you are wrong with this Lotus. It's just that.....

I believe that I have never personally attacked people, and would never intend to attack a person - but ideas and beliefs should be open for discussion

Some of us are more careful than others about attacking ideas. Disagree... sure but attacking ideas can make some people feel as if they are being attacked personally. This can take the "strong discussion" into a whole different territory.

Now at the bar chatting we can consciously and even subconsciously judge how our "strong discussion" will be taken, but on a forum, we have no idea who will read it.

People should show more caution in their arguments on-line than they do in person but most don't. I think that is the "not afraid to get their ass kicked from home syndrome" style of posting.

Knowingly pushing people's buttons but hiding behind the skirt of "I never call anyone names" is no good either (unless they are Danish of course then it is mandatory and name calling is also permitted)

Come on folks. Anybody surprised that someone ended up with their panties in a twist in a discussion about abortion? Think it ever happened before?

"Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in your pocket."

That sounds like something J. Edgar Hoover or Roy Cohn would have muttered!

Quote from: Raoul Duke on September 22, 2008, 11:49:46 PM

"Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in your pocket."

That sounds like something J. Edgar Hoover or Roy Cohn would have muttered!

Actually it sounds like my late dragonmother-in-law.

but attacking ideas can make some people feel as if they are being attacked personally.

This sounds very Chinese!  Attack my government = attack me, attack my ideas = attack me.  The torch relay was a classic in this line of thinking, as is discussing things like '5000 years of culture'. 

The history of human progress and individual human growth is the history of challenging beliefs and ideas, theories and views. 

Knowingly pushing people's buttons

is an interesting one.  This means that there are a series of topics that are totally off-limits for discussion.  For me not to have MY buttons pushed would mean that no-one could defend the death penalty, private gun ownership, mention any form of military remembrance days, talk about 'the Chinese' as a homogeneous group, 'pop' psych tests, say they liked country and western music and definitely no-one would EVER malign vegemite. 

Each of us has a series of these buttons.  Add them all together and we never move out of 'hi, welcome, have a drink, watch out for George ' mode.  (And that may push George's button!)

Being welded to ideas and unable to see them as separate from the self is a scary concept. It limits us, fetters thinking, destroys our ability to analyse.  All the stuff we are trying to push our students out of. We live in a nation that tells its people, individually and collectively, that there can be no challenge to ideas, no analysis of policy, no change in beliefs as handed down from on high because it would destroy the 'harmonious' society.   

We should be able to practice what we preach to our students - look around you, look at what you read, see, hear, test what you have been brought up to believe, do more research to see if what you think you know is real or if there are alternate ways of thinking, believing etc.  We all say that within our teaching we are also giving doses of analysis and thinking skills.  We all get frustrated when our students, co-workers, FAO, bosses just give us the standard line without trying to figure out new ideas, new methods or solutions to problems. These are the outcomes of not being challenged or asked to analyse and expand/discard the ideas they were given.


I think wandering around with a pecker in your pocket would be a bit messy.

Cheeky, I try really hard not to attack forum members.  My post to Hossuru was to let him know that it was possible to disagree with someone (ie. saying "I disagree with you") without attacking that person personally (ie. saying "You are a JERK for your belief.")  Only he used stronger words than 'jerk.'

 And that's the thing Ruth. You know...I don't agree with you on much but I adore and respect you and your husband because regardless of different beliefs, you guys are good people and that's all that matters. 

 Hossuru was a complete dick I will be glad never to hear from again. Anyone who didn't agree with him was subject to the rudest of insults. I was subjected to one about a month ago, but I chose not to waste to my time and never have anything to do with a thread he posted on again.

 And as RD pointed out...this is a CHINA forum. With the exception of asking questions (which were answered in a most helpful fashion) he rarely had any posts remotely related to China. Always on the soapbox. I can't recall anyone who has been so obnoxious in such a short period of time.

 Good riddance.

So, fluoridation is a commie plot to make the world more like Florida!?!?!  And Cheeky now lives in Guangdong, which has a climate very similar to Florida.  Just as Lenin was replaced by someone made of sterner stuff, that large rodent in charge of Disney will have to be done away with and replaced with a proper leader once the revolution is successful.  Of course, it ALL makes sense now.   

Cheeky, where do I sign up to be a Russian agent?

This sounds very Chinese!

that good or bad Lotus?

Knowingly pushing people's buttons is an interesting one.  This means that there
a series of topics that are totally off-limits for discussion.

Oh yes that's exactly what it means   

We should be able to practice what we preach to our students

I'm not your student and I'm not talking to you in person. There is a difference Lotus.

For example. A student may hang on your every word and idea. I just really couldn't give a rat's ass.

Oh EL  you have to first join CIS and FBI. Then after a tough training from both sides, you should not consider who pays more but it is a matter of simple patriotism. So eventually you betray CIS to FBI and FBI to KGB. Then you are caught and tortured by all 3 agencies and then they might, just MIGHT consider you passed.

(that only applies to outsiders  )