Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta

The Bar Room => The BS-Wrestling Pit => Topic started by: Hossuru on September 22, 2008, 09:56:25 AM

Title: Singled out
Post by: Hossuru on September 22, 2008, 09:56:25 AM
http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=2687.0
Another edit?

Please delete my account, Raoul. It's very obvious that any POV other than what is typically found here is not welcome.

Thanks to those that helped me with the contract translation, and the advice on the school that picked me up. It's really too bad I couldn't get to know some of you better, and know one or two of you less.

@Ruth: keep the faith, sister.

Adieu.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on September 22, 2008, 10:06:30 AM
Easily done...at least to freeze it.

We actually do OK with a variety of POVs; what's not welcome is a completely smashmouth, aggressive, chip-on-the-shoulder delivery style.

Your "sister", whom by the way I'd address with the same name, has been a member of this place almost since the time we turned on the lights. Yet she manages to not only get along with the other kids but be particularly esteemed by many of them...again with me at the front of that line.
Her secret may well lie in her ability to keep a civil tongue in her head; who knows.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: George on September 22, 2008, 10:55:54 AM
Been a lot of reading to do lately, around these here parts.....not a lot of it pleasant.
Hossaru, you have been particularly unpleasant! We have given you advice and assistance, and you repay that by mounting your own, personal soapbox. Fair enough, but using the sort of language that even I refrain from using is just not nice!! Little soapboxes have a habit of becoming ugly, especially when the speaker can only see his own POV~!! This place has a bunch of different Points of view, and there is space for them all. I don't agree with most of them, but I tolerate them. For example, I have a more cynical view of the world than  Ruth does. I don't believe in religion, but I don't call her nasty names just because she doesn't agree with me! Abortion is something that has crossed my path, but I keep my thoughts to myself.
You have a lot of growing up to do! Please consider it.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 22, 2008, 12:10:35 PM
Little soapboxes have a habit of becoming ugly, especially when the speaker can only see his own POV~!!

Oh man, and I just spend a fortune buying a truckload of guaranteed 100% POV-filtering soapboxes on eBay.  bibibibibi

I was going to break out the one about floridation being a Soviet plot and see if I could get Cheeky to argue with me about it.   ahahahahah
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: George on September 22, 2008, 01:14:39 PM
Quote
floridation being a Soviet plot
Believe it or not, a variation of that one is being played out on China Daily Forums!
Melamine is a Western Terrorist plot! bibibibibi offtopic Yeah, I know. Shall I resign?

Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 22, 2008, 01:31:34 PM
I've actually got a book on the evil Ruskie fluoridation plot buried somewhere in my collection.  The title is "Your Health and Sanity in This Age of Treason" (frighteningly enough, I'm NOT making this up, and it is a real book).

Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: cheekygal on September 22, 2008, 03:44:35 PM
Actually, it did turn into a very sensitive discussion. I haven't read what Hossaru said but perhaps we were really getting over our heads there.
As for the Soviet plot... Sorry, ES, I wouldn't be getting into any discussions hot or cold on classified information  uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: decurso on September 22, 2008, 07:12:06 PM
 Due to the fact that I have been working overtime to keep a civil tongue in my head these days, I have avoided any interaction with hossuru. Nearly HALF his posts have been rude and uncivil. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on September 22, 2008, 07:26:28 PM
I was going to break out the one about floridation being a Soviet plot and see if I could get Cheeky to argue with me about it.

I've actually got a book on the evil Russkie fluoridation plot buried somewhere in my collection.

One has to be careful with the terminology on these issues.

'flUoridation'- the process of adding fluorine salts to drinking water- is a perfectly safe process, made in America, and essential for good dental health and hygiene. It's a good thing and 100% conspiracy-free. bfbfbfbfbf blblblblbl

'Floridation'- the process of turning the entire USA into Florida- is a pernicious product of the Soviet Union, the International Communist Conspiracy, and their ultimate arch-overlords: The Disney Corporation. Florida is notorious as a land of fruits and nuts; the blazing sun and the omnipresent overpowering narcotic reek of tanning lotion make it impossible for even well-meaning people to think clearly there. This made Florida the perfect place for Disney to base its plans for global domination, and they have filled the place with millions of mouse-ear-wearing Commies- many recruited from nearby Cuba. Over the last 8 decades millions of innocent children have been receiving subliminal Disney messages preparing them to accept collectivization of agriculture and industry, a fondness for palm trees and flamingos, and an otherwise inexplicable suppressed appetite for Conch Fritters and vodka shots. Floridation is EVIL- it's the REAL "Miami Vice"- and we must not allow our guard to rest for even a single second.

Sadly, the Floridation Conspiracy reaches to the very top levels of the American government, and many well-intentioned Conservatives are actually its primary dupes. Why do you think George W. Bush had his own brother governing Florida, this last truly dangerous so-called "People's Republic"? How else do you think they were able to use Florida (or "Floridska", as it's sometimes known) to engineer the defeat of Al Gore- A Bugs-Bunny-watching patriot whose environmental emphasis posed a grave danger to the entire Floridation Conspiracy?

Which brings me to my conclusion: Before you laugh me off as just another conspiracy nut, let me say just two words:
GLOBAL WARMING
It's hard to build new theme parks in cold places, isn't it?
This, ultimately, is why the Soviet Union failed!

So...what can YOU do? It's simple:

1) Drink only pure, natural, melamine-free 100% Brazilian orange juice.

2) Keep your kids away from Disney products; read to them from the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn instead.

3) Don't support sports teams with Commie names like "Devil Rays", "Buccaneers", or "Seminoles".

4) Help fight Global Warming by always running your air conditioners full-blast, with all the doors and windows open.

5) Write your government today and DEMAND ACTION!

blblblblbl blblblblbl blblblblbl blblblblbl blblblblbl blblblblbl blblblblbl blblblblbl

As for Hossuru: Despite what he thinks, he didn't have trouble here because of his conservative views per se. He had trouble here because he behaved like a belligerent dickhead. asasasasas
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Ruth on September 22, 2008, 11:09:24 PM
Quote
3) Don't support sports teams with Commie names like "Seminoles".
  Just when you told us to play nice, YOU go picking fights.  What have you got against Nolefan?
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Ruth on September 22, 2008, 11:40:31 PM
I tried to send a PM, but the limboid status won't let me.  So I'll post publicly.  This is for Hossuru, if he's still reading here.

I know that my political and religious beliefs are very different from the majority of the people at the Saloon.  Forum guidelines direct us away from discussing religion, so I try to keep my personal beliefs off the forum.  Sometimes, like with the abortion discussion, I just can't keep quiet.  As a forum community we don't mind different opinions, as long as people are able to discuss politely and back up what they say.  Some topics are just too hot for that to happen and are better left out of the Saloon.  (And Raoul addressed that above.) I'll try really really hard not to bring up the A word again.

I find I am able to meet most folks here on common ground as a teacher and expat living in China.  There are some members that I know I would never spend time with in real life.  Just too different from me.  We've got to let some things go, in order to keep the peace.  Definitely name calling and personal attacks are not permitted. 

When I read an opinion vastly different from my own beliefs I just think, 'wow, opens my eyes to how others believe.'  Most comments I just read and ignore.  One comment hit me recently and I believe so strongly about it in the opposite direction, that I responded.  BUT, I didn't attack the forum member for his belief.  There is a HUGE difference in saying 'I disagree with you' and 'You are a JERK for believing that.' 

Sooo, it comes down to I have more in common with my fellow Saloonies in relation to China (which is why this forum exists) even if they would never attend my church or vote the way I do (which are not topics this forum was created for).  Hope you can live with that and find enough good here to continue.  (And he's obviously decided not to, based upon the OP for this thread.)
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Shroomy on September 22, 2008, 11:42:30 PM
Quote
3) Don't support sports teams with Commie names like "Seminoles".
  Just when you told us to play nice, YOU go picking fights.  What have you got against Nolefan?


Ruth, Noles is okay, it's his half-brother Semi-Noles who's the problem. ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Ruth on September 22, 2008, 11:46:07 PM
 bkbkbkbkbk'Shroomy you made me laugh out loud.  Don't you love how we can play with the English language?  How clever of you to pick up on that word.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Shroomy on September 22, 2008, 11:48:29 PM
Glad to be of service, ma'am.  bfbfbfbfbf
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on September 22, 2008, 11:49:46 PM
No, no, nothing like that. I've always known 'Noles to be a Commie through and through, and with his ethnicity you can also of course assume he's a terrorist as well.
However, I have so much...dirt  on this man that he wouldn't dare pull anything. I heed the words of our late, great President, Lyndon B. Johnson: "Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in your pocket."
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: AMonk on September 22, 2008, 11:52:06 PM
....... I heed the words of our late, great President, Lyndon B. Johnson: "Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in his pocket."



 aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Ruth on September 22, 2008, 11:52:51 PM
Noles' shower isn't working?
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: cheekygal on September 22, 2008, 11:53:23 PM
I've never thought of Noles as a Commie. But I know loves us Commies, so there is a term for it somewhere  ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah  cheexyblonde cheexyblonde cheexyblonde

Ruth, I personally didn't see you attacking anyone. As I said not once - everyone is entitled to an opinion and position in life.  agagagagag
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on September 22, 2008, 11:55:19 PM
Indeed. And I finally got the pockets right. agagagagag
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: AMonk on September 22, 2008, 11:56:37 PM
 
Indeed. And I finally got the pockets right. agagagagag

agagagagag agagagagag
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Ruth on September 22, 2008, 11:59:09 PM
Cheeky, I try really hard not to attack forum members.  My post to Hossuru was to let him know that it was possible to disagree with someone (ie. saying "I disagree with you") without attacking that person personally (ie. saying "You are a JERK for your belief.")  Only he used stronger words than 'jerk.'
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Lotus Eater on September 23, 2008, 12:06:36 AM
I know I am in the minority here in that I really really love a good strong discussion.  Other points of view are really interesting for me.  Ruth says that
Quote
When I read an opinion vastly different from my own beliefs I just think, 'wow, opens my eyes to how others believe.'
 I go 'wow, why don't I agree with that, where is MY proof for the way I think?" and it challenges me to go thinking, hunting, researching. The different points of view here can give me a chance to expand what I know, believe etc.  So I want to thank those people who do engage in strong discussion, who do bring out good ideas, who do challenge others (and my) thinking.

I believe that I have never personally attacked people, and would never intend to attack a person - but ideas and beliefs should be open for discussion - that is what we are trying to do for our students.  If we, as teachers, can't discuss issues, we sure as hell can't teach students to discuss, think, challenge, reason.  BUT.. name calling, abuse, personal attacks are not ways of discussing, persuading or reasoning, and that is where it slides from strong discussion into stuff no-one accepts.


But... is it also something to do with the medium?  I have met a number of saloonies and for the most part,I figure that they get on pretty well in person.  Even the people we think we may not like because of their different world views, we find to be pretty reasonable people in real life.  So I wonder if it is something to do with sitting at a keyboard alone?  Instead of being in a bar chatting, with the political talkers over in the corner having a good "I love Sarah Palin' chat, and the others comparing photos of kids and dogs, and talking football and where to find the best civet juice, we sit, filled with only the words in front of us?  So these become more important and have a stronger context than they would in a social setting.  In the bar we would still offer the same opinions, but at the same time, we would tell our discussion mates - my turn to buy the drinks, we would laugh at the end of the chat and walk over to talk to others.  Here, we wait for a response to our ideas, and have no other context to put them in, so they seem to take on a deeper importance.  2 fen worth.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Stil on September 23, 2008, 03:52:53 AM
A discussion in person, is one moment in time. It can be tempered or inflamed with body language, vocal tone and a host of other things but the conversation takes place between the people present and then it's gone.

A discussion on a forum such as this one is recorded. You have no idea who will read or respond to it and there is no time-factor involved.


Quote
I know I am in the minority here in that I really really love a good strong discussion

I believe you are wrong with this Lotus. It's just that.....

Quote
I believe that I have never personally attacked people, and would never intend to attack a person - but ideas and beliefs should be open for discussion

Some of us are more careful than others about attacking ideas. Disagree... sure but attacking ideas can make some people feel as if they are being attacked personally. This can take the "strong discussion" into a whole different territory.

Now at the bar chatting we can consciously and even subconsciously judge how our "strong discussion" will be taken, but on a forum, we have no idea who will read it.

People should show more caution in their arguments on-line than they do in person but most don't. I think that is the "not afraid to get their ass kicked from home syndrome" style of posting.

Knowingly pushing people's buttons but hiding behind the skirt of "I never call anyone names" is no good either (unless they are Danish of course then it is mandatory and name calling is also permitted)

Come on folks. Anybody surprised that someone ended up with their panties in a twist in a discussion about abortion? Think it ever happened before?

Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Spaghetti on September 23, 2008, 03:56:58 AM
"Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in your pocket."


That sounds like something J. Edgar Hoover or Roy Cohn would have muttered! ahahahahah
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Acjade on September 23, 2008, 04:18:48 AM
"Never trust a man unless you have his pecker in your pocket."


That sounds like something J. Edgar Hoover or Roy Cohn would have muttered! ahahahahah

Actually it sounds like my late dragonmother-in-law.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Lotus Eater on September 23, 2008, 06:13:18 AM

but attacking ideas can make some people feel as if they are being attacked personally.


This sounds very Chinese!  ahahahahah ahahahahah Attack my government = attack me, attack my ideas = attack me.  The torch relay was a classic in this line of thinking, as is discussing things like '5000 years of culture'. 

The history of human progress and individual human growth is the history of challenging beliefs and ideas, theories and views. 

Quote
Knowingly pushing people's buttons
is an interesting one.  This means that there are a series of topics that are totally off-limits for discussion.  For me not to have MY buttons pushed would mean that no-one could defend the death penalty, private gun ownership, mention any form of military remembrance days, talk about 'the Chinese' as a homogeneous group, 'pop' psych tests, say they liked country and western music and definitely no-one would EVER malign vegemite. 

Each of us has a series of these buttons.  Add them all together and we never move out of 'hi, welcome, have a drink, watch out for George ' mode.  (And that may push George's button!)

Being welded to ideas and unable to see them as separate from the self is a scary concept. It limits us, fetters thinking, destroys our ability to analyse.  All the stuff we are trying to push our students out of. We live in a nation that tells its people, individually and collectively, that there can be no challenge to ideas, no analysis of policy, no change in beliefs as handed down from on high because it would destroy the 'harmonious' society.   

We should be able to practice what we preach to our students - look around you, look at what you read, see, hear, test what you have been brought up to believe, do more research to see if what you think you know is real or if there are alternate ways of thinking, believing etc.  We all say that within our teaching we are also giving doses of analysis and thinking skills.  We all get frustrated when our students, co-workers, FAO, bosses just give us the standard line without trying to figure out new ideas, new methods or solutions to problems. These are the outcomes of not being challenged or asked to analyse and expand/discard the ideas they were given.


I think wandering around with a pecker in your pocket would be a bit messy. ahahahahah
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: decurso on September 23, 2008, 07:08:36 AM
Cheeky, I try really hard not to attack forum members.  My post to Hossuru was to let him know that it was possible to disagree with someone (ie. saying "I disagree with you") without attacking that person personally (ie. saying "You are a JERK for your belief.")  Only he used stronger words than 'jerk.'

 And that's the thing Ruth. You know...I don't agree with you on much but I adore and respect you and your husband because regardless of different beliefs, you guys are good people and that's all that matters.  agagagagag

 Hossuru was a complete dick I will be glad never to hear from again. Anyone who didn't agree with him was subject to the rudest of insults. I was subjected to one about a month ago, but I chose not to waste to my time and never have anything to do with a thread he posted on again.

 And as RD pointed out...this is a CHINA forum. With the exception of asking questions (which were answered in a most helpful fashion) he rarely had any posts remotely related to China. Always on the soapbox. I can't recall anyone who has been so obnoxious in such a short period of time.

 Good riddance.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 23, 2008, 01:30:17 PM
So, fluoridation is a commie plot to make the world more like Florida!?!?!  And Cheeky now lives in Guangdong, which has a climate very similar to Florida.  Just as Lenin was replaced by someone made of sterner stuff, that large rodent in charge of Disney will have to be done away with and replaced with a proper leader once the revolution is successful.  Of course, it ALL makes sense now.   uuuuuuuuuu

Cheeky, where do I sign up to be a Russian agent?
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Stil on September 23, 2008, 02:03:00 PM
This sounds very Chinese!

that good or bad Lotus?

Quote
Knowingly pushing people's buttons is an interesting one.  This means that there
a series of topics that are totally off-limits for discussion.
Oh yes that's exactly what it means   bibibibibi


Quote
We should be able to practice what we preach to our students

I'm not your student and I'm not talking to you in person. There is a difference Lotus.

For example. A student may hang on your every word and idea. I just really couldn't give a rat's ass.

Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: cheekygal on September 23, 2008, 03:25:20 PM
Oh EL  bibibibibi you have to first join CIS and FBI. Then after a tough training from both sides, you should not consider who pays more but it is a matter of simple patriotism. So eventually you betray CIS to FBI and FBI to KGB. Then you are caught and tortured by all 3 agencies and then they might, just MIGHT consider you passed.

(that only applies to outsiders  uuuuuuuuuu)
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: cheekygal on September 23, 2008, 03:26:00 PM
/me does a little waddly dance due to successful thread hijack  offtopic  uuuuuuuuuu
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Ruth on September 23, 2008, 04:31:30 PM
Dancing is most impressive at this stage of your pregnancy.  Waddling did you say?  ahahahahah

As for a hijack, previous comments have pretty much dealt with the OP and moved on.

EVERYBODY - Get off your bar stools and dance with Cheeky.  Don't want to 'single her out'.  (See how I brought it back on topic.)
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Calach Pfeffer on September 23, 2008, 04:57:58 PM

but attacking ideas can make some people feel as if they are being attacked personally.

This sounds very Chinese!  ahahahahah ahahahahah Attack my government = attack me, attack my ideas = attack me.  The torch relay was a classic in this line of thinking, as is discussing things like '5000 years of culture'. 

It's true though.  Some people naturally personalise their ideas.  And in so doing are part of the process that invents "value."  Not just true or false, but valuable and moral.  It all does come down to true and false in the end, but valuable and not-valuable are important layers of meaning for comparing truths.  If people didn't personalise stuff at least sometimes, would there be anything left to recognise as valuable?  Even "true" and "false" are valueless if you don't have some personal relationship to them.  The hard-nosed thinkers, the ones who can step back from their emotional involvement in a given issue, aren't really all that hard-nosed--it's just that their strongest emotional investment--truth, or community, or learning, or whatever their hard-nosed thinking is meant finally to aid--isn't directly attacked in common argument.

And then there's people who don't really want any kind of attack on ideas, and for them it's dull and tiresome, because they already know where their sense of right and wrong comes from: tradition.  And tradition is largely something one doesn't question.

I grant you, people who take every disagreement personally and people who have their answers already mapped out by their ancestors make uninspiring interlocutors, unless one is really fond of endless reminiscence or constant self-questioning, but put everyone together and it seems you've got a big system of checks and balances curbing the excesses of any one approach to understanding the world around one.

So... respect.  Yeah, I know, how "blah" is that!  It's traditional to observe that respect for differing views is good.  Personally, I think dynamic respect is better than plain vanilla respect.  Straight respect is a bit too strict and doesn't let you run up on other people's lawns and egg their windows.  Dynamic respect is better.  One can on occasion ring someone's doorbell and run away if one allows that someone else is on their way to your place with toilet paper.  After a while all the razzing will settle down into something respectable.  (Assuming of course that people generally aren't so wedded to their own practice that they will always fail to see any value in a different approach.)

That's presumably the value of diversity: everyone should from time to time let one of their large and valuable number go off the deep end and rant and rave and struggle because somewhere in their foaming nonsense there's an important gem that everyone else has overlooked.  Or there might be, anyway.  If they get too rude, of course, use the firehose, but, you know... go through their pockets too because there might be something in there.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: cheekygal on September 23, 2008, 04:59:47 PM
Ok I kinda did a closing dance. I am not repeating it again  cheexyblonde
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Lotus Eater on September 23, 2008, 05:50:15 PM
This sounds very Chinese!

that good or bad Lotus?

Depends on how you view the Chinese system of thinking. If you think it is a good process, then it's good.  If you think it doesn't allow for discussion, analysis, new views, challenges and you believe those things are good, then it is bad.  So - it depends.

Quote
Quote
Knowingly pushing people's buttons is an interesting one.  This means that there
a series of topics that are totally off-limits for discussion.
Oh yes that's exactly what it means   duh
  Ahh.. a nice out of context quote!  ahahahahah  The next part was the consequences of this - that we all have 'no go areas' and add each of them up - then we have VERY little left that is OK to discuss.

Quote
Quote
We should be able to practice what we preach to our students

I'm not your student and I'm not talking to you in person. There is a difference Lotus.

For example. A student may hang on your every word and idea. I just really couldn't give a rat's ass.

Ahh.. almost a personal attack .. interesting.  If our students are hanging on our every word we are failing as teachers of thinking and analysis. The point again was missed - if we believe that part of our job is to teach thinking along with vocab, analysis along with grammar, then if we ourselves cannot accept this applied to our own ideas, we should NOT be kidding ourselves we are capable of teaching this.

We do not need to be there in person.  Much analysis, critical thinking etc is done alone, with our reading, our researching, our marking.  If we can't analyse and respond to written material, how do we teach our students to research? 

Quote from CP:
Quote
And in so doing are part of the process that invents "value."  Not just true or false, but valuable and moral.  It all does come down to true and false in the end, but valuable and not-valuable are important layers of meaning for comparing truths.
  And this is where we need the most discussion - because what is valuable and moral for one person (ie Sarah Palin or the Pope) can be dangerous and destructive for other people or countries.

Respect for the person is demonstrated by taking their ideas seriously enough to research, to discuss alternate views.  Dis-respect comes in the name calling, the personal attacks or the feeling/implication that another person is not capable of participating actively in a serious discussion.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: decurso on September 23, 2008, 06:28:47 PM

but attacking ideas can make some people feel as if they are being attacked personally.

This sounds very Chinese!  ahahahahah ahahahahah Attack my government = attack me, attack my ideas = attack me.  The torch relay was a classic in this line of thinking, as is discussing things like '5000 years of culture'. 

It's true though.  Some people naturally personalise their ideas.  And in so doing are part of the process that invents "value."  Not just true or false, but valuable and moral.  It all does come down to true and false in the end, but valuable and not-valuable are important layers of meaning for comparing truths.  If people didn't personalise stuff at least sometimes, would there be anything left to recognise as valuable?  Even "true" and "false" are valueless if you don't have some personal relationship to them.  The hard-nosed thinkers, the ones who can step back from their emotional involvement in a given issue, aren't really all that hard-nosed--it's just that their strongest emotional investment--truth, or community, or learning, or whatever their hard-nosed thinking is meant finally to aid--isn't directly attacked in common argument.



 True CP...but I view this as a form of insecurity. Some people seem to have so little sense of self that the sole thing they have to define themselves are their values and belief systems. Sad, really.

 I'm all for a good debate, but I have my limits. I've come across a number of people who can spout on for days...weeks even, until they are satisfied they have proved their point. Me...I got better things to do.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Calach Pfeffer on September 23, 2008, 07:51:10 PM
True CP...but I view this as a form of insecurity. Some people seem to have so little sense of self that the sole thing they have to define themselves are their values and belief systems. Sad, really.

Yeah, and they can be wearisome to talk with, but... if they really are into getting their sense of self by personalising everything that comes their way and they question their own worth because of it, then after some time they're going to come up with some truly impressive insights into value and meaning--boring, tiresome sadsacks unable to lighten up though they may be.  Who else would undertake the task with such grinding relentlessness?  Everyone does it to some degree.  Some people make a career of it.

So, then, for example, you add in some force of nature person, someone who relentlessly organises practical things without a single offhand thought to the human cost, and it's a Deathmatch or it's a productive collaboration that yields something great neither could so easily accomplish alone.

Respect for the person is demonstrated by taking their ideas seriously enough to research, to discuss alternate views. 

I must dig to beffer:  respect for the ideas is demonstrated by research and so on; respect for the person in demonstrated by admitting--grudgingly perhaps, and with teeth gritted--their right to their own way of valuing things.

Quote
Dis-respect comes in the name calling, the personal attacks or the feeling/implication that another person is not capable of participating actively in a serious discussion.

And I think I must now announce a first position I take in pretty much any thought process:  "People?!  They're the worst.  So full of icky feelings and personal crap--my god!  Can they count past ten with their shoes on?"

But I digress...

Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Lotus Eater on September 23, 2008, 08:12:13 PM
Me ... I'm still worried about the pecker in the pocket.  Reach in to find your keys or money and encounter a pecker.... very scary process.  And what happens if it falls out when you pull out your hanky?  Do you pick it up out of the Chinese dirt and pop it back in your pocket?  How long will it last before it begins to ... smell?

Please - just say NO to the pecker pocketing people.
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Nolefan on September 23, 2008, 08:54:03 PM
I know it's  offtopic but what the heck???

can't leave you kids alone for a day without watching my back...  cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb

commies are cooooool in my book.. one session dancing with Cheekygal would convince even ol' Mc Carthy were he still around  afafafafaf bfbfbfbfbf

LE, it's a tricky pecker which is why it needs holding... can't be trusted... but oh so fun..  uuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuu

now y'all, meet my old friend and guest at the saloon for a few days:
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh275/FairyFindings/ChiefOsceolaFSU.jpg)

chop chop... chop chop..
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Raoul F. Duke on September 23, 2008, 09:10:42 PM
Thanks for the effort to get this one friendlier again. But I'd already been driven to needing to say something, and had spent too long on it before I saw new posts...

We've been seeing why the "good strong discussions" get segregated into this woodpile. I wish we didn't have to have this place at all; it's here because some of our esteemed members are apparently unable to restrain themselves from launching into them. I sure wish they wouldn't. But they do.

I don't want this kind of stuff here much, because, as we've seen all too often:

1) For too many people, "attack my ideas/beliefs" equals "attack me personally". Such people, it seems, can't have a "good strong discussion" about anything substantial without going incendiary.

2) Some of us have the opposite polarity: they can't just express an opposing idea, they have to openly insinuate what an underqualified moronic asshole the other poster is as well. Again: such people are simply not capable of sustaining a "good strong discussion" that remains friendly and respectful.

3) Some of us, and no real need to name names here, have the approach of "Oh, disagree with me, will you? Well, I'll just pick up this club and I'll bash and bash and bash and keep bashing until the other viewpoint crawls away into oblivion and only my opinion remains. Damn, I'm good!"
Well, guess what: This approach doesn't just drive away ideas, it drives away MEMBERS. I had another one probably down the hatch this morning; thanks so much.

4) "Pushing people's buttons" DOESN'T mean "stating ideas"...it means saying things for the express purpose of getting a rise out of people. When done the wrong way, it seriously sucks ass. Boo, hiss.

Ladies and gentlemen: THIS IS A FORUM ABOUT CHINA.
I've been saying this for 5 long years, but some of us remain hopelessly unclear on this concept. llllllllll
It's a China forum. Why do we have to keep coming back to these endless horrible discussions about religious beliefs and partisan political views in this place? Why is this horseshit continually inflicted upon us? Why must we choose this venue to talk about Sarah Palin or The Pope (or their love-child bpbpbpbpbp ) when there are so many other places that WANT and WELCOME these discussions? WE DO NOT WANT OR WELCOME THEM! Especially not if they can't happen without turning ugly...and apparently they can't, even here on what's supposed to be the Friendly Place, the alternative to the repulsive mosh pits found at Dave's ESL Cafe and elsewhere. bibibibibi
(By the way...the Palin thread started out perfectly innocently and was fun. It just got mangled beyond recognition by later posts...)

There are lots and lots of forums about religious beliefs and partisan political views. If you want to talk about those things, GO THERE. Not here. There. If you want to talk about China, come here.
Why is this idea so difficult to grasp? llllllllll

Folks, I HATE to censor...edit or delete posts, disable membership accounts, and so forth. I really do...it literally pains me to have to do these things.
But one thing I CAN promise you: the Saloon is NOT going to be turned into a politico-religious ThunderDome, or a convenient ego-polishing stand for some of our members. Not as long as I can get to a keyboard. I will CLOSE THE PLACE DOWN, or anything short of that I have to do, rather than see that happen.

I am physically ill over the tone in this place right now. It needs to sweeten up and re-focus on China PDQ or I'm going to re-enact Jack Nicholson's classic scene in The Shining.

Heeere's Johnny! aoaoaoaoao

Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 24, 2008, 01:02:24 PM
But I heard that Sarah Palin had a love child with a Chinese guy.
 vvvvvvvvvv
Title: Re: Singled out
Post by: Escaped Lunatic on September 24, 2008, 01:04:53 PM
Oh EL  bibibibibi you have to first join CIS and FBI. Then after a tough training from both sides, you should not consider who pays more but it is a matter of simple patriotism. So eventually you betray CIS to FBI and FBI to KGB. Then you are caught and tortured by all 3 agencies and then they might, just MIGHT consider you passed.

(that only applies to outsiders  uuuuuuuuuu)

Coooool!  Can you write me a recommendation letter for my application to the FBI?   ahahahahah



EDIT:  Oh wow!  My 400th post.   agagagagag