Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The BS-Wrestling Pit => Topic started by: jwbhomer on October 18, 2007, 03:05:21 AM
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There may be aother thread on the subject of Chris Neil, known on the greasy spoon as Peter Jackson. Anyway, here's the latest update from the Toronto Star.
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/267707
It's embarrassing that he's a Canuck, but I guess there are bad apples in every barrel. (Should I be making the presumption of innocence here? Pretty difficult.)
James McIntosh, executive director of International Justice Mission, Canada, which was instrumental in Mr. Bakker's conviction, said he welcomed the increased police tracking of pedophiles abroad.
“Of all the things Canada can export, like hockey players or famous musicians, to see Canadians go over to exploit little children is truly heartbreaking,” he said.
Get out the trebuchet! Send him back to Canada, get him incarcerated and let him receive some jailhouse justice! asasasasas
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Given the dodginess of the photo, an awful lot of fellas out there may be targeted. Perhaps even one or two of our own honourable members.
I am for the presumption of innocence until proven guilty - as humans we are way too keen to lynch. And unless we have clear and incontrovertible proof I don't think that the articles should have been published. Have a look at the stuff around the West Memphis 3.
I am also clear that incarceration is appropriate for sex offenders. Permanent is fine, but rehabilitation is preferred.
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I think that it's totally clear that none of our male members subcribe to a sexual pedlication for boys. Which cannot be said of the females.
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WOW - which (and how many? 'females' implies more than one) of our female members have been abusing under-the-age-of-consent boys?? I think all of the women on this board would be most upset at that accusation.
I did not at any time state that our members would be involved in this activity! BUT I did point out that the photo was poor enough that any number of innocent males who happened to bear a superficial resemblance (including some of our hirsutely challenged men) could now be a target. This is an anathema to me. The innocent should not be attacked because of poor reporting.
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LE, I agree with you completely. A poor picture makes a thousand faulty accusations.
None of the ladies on this site have implied any interest in underage young men.
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Ack, AJ, where does it come from? aoaoaoaoao
I'll second LE - just cause someone told someone and that someone told to another doesnt make a person "something". But then again... even some real criminals escape justice and walk away from punishment...
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AJ I don't think the problem is with your glasses when you read LE's posts.
I read an article on this guy in the Age online and they showed another photo of him taken at a Thai airport, looks like 2 different people.
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I just realized how popular this will make the spoon.
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Glad my country's starting to chase these criminals, and that Asia's not the pervert haven it used to be.
...well, at least it's drifting that way.
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I think that it's totally clear that none of our male members subcribe to a sexual pedlication for boys. Which cannot be said of the females.
I think some of the ladies need reading glasses! This was a joke, girls. There is NO mention of UNDER-AGE here!!
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George, thank goodness I wasn't the only one to think it was a joke. A good one at that, I might add. Our "ladies" are not dowdy old Victorians, theys got some "life" and "passion" in them for us "boys".
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The trouble with paedophilia, like racism, is that it isn't a suitable subject for jokes, Michael Jackson aside.
I too would like the guilty party caught. That said, there is something higher involved here.
I also would like to think that people get a chance at justice, guilty or not. Trying people online sucks, especially when it's 'official'.
What happens if he is not guilty? He will be forever known as a paedophile anyway. What happens if he is guilty? He will not be able to get an unbiased jury. The trial will be a farce, and a decent lawyer would get him off, or at least a retrial, then another, until they can't try him. (I assume Canadian law is similar to other countries in this)
Remember Hurricane Carter.
Where is the justice?
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My punning is atrocious. cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb cbcbcbcbcb
Sorry to anyone who was offended by my dismal abilty to bring some light heartedness to a subject which has touched me personally. I have scars that burn sometimes.
But once again, my apologies to any who took offence at my remarks.
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My bad!! bibibibibi Sorry I took it the wrong way. ayayayayay
I just couldn't see how you made the leap from a pedophile abusing under age non-consenting boys to the ladies of this forum and their wonderful men. So - this means we are agreed that there are no men or women on this forum with homosexual interests? ahahahahah The men ALL have a sexual predilection for girls (over the age of consent of course!!), and the women for over-the-age-of-consent boys? cheexyblonde Given the general stats on the prevalence of homosexuality across the world, I think that is a pretty sweeping statement to make. I have no data on this forum membership. But I would also hate to think that we were so phobic/intolerant that gays and lesbians were not welcome here.
I will go get my funny bone checked immediately! It seriously led me astray this time. amamamamam
P.S. If I figure I can be misunderstood as to intent - I will try to remember to use the smilies. That way people don't usually misread me. We've had this problem before.
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When you consider how one of the pictures was "created" -- unscrambling a blurred internet image -- a case of mistaken identity IS a distinct possibility. However, the individual who was named and shamed did himself no favour by doing a midnight flit from his employment in South Korea and heading for parts unknown. Lots of judges and juries would view that as tantamount to an admission of guilt.
Getting back to the identity question, the Thai police seem to consider that they have enough to apply for a national arrest warrant. They have a copy of the man's passport, including photo, too.
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If he is guilty I am more than happy for him to be caught, tried fairly and punished fairly. But if that were my pic or one looking like me, naming me, I'd certainly do a flit as well - knowing the lynch mob mentality of the majority of people. Our history is littered with stories of the innocent being unjustly accused and abused.
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tantamount perhaps, but not proof nor admission of guilt, in a society where supposedly we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. I assume Canada no longer uses Napoleonic law.
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A couple of points. First, he must be proven to be guilty. As much as it hurts to trun a pedophile loose on the general population, it would hurt more to destroy and innocent person wrongly accused and convicted - besides, the pedophile is still on the loose in the general populaton. Truly guilty? Yes. Turn him loose in the general population of a penitentiary.
Second point - bisexual, heterosexual, homosexual or metrosexual - it doesn't matter one iota as long as partners are of age of consent and have the mental capacity for the decision-making involved in "consent". And no, young 'uns might think they have the capacity for consent, but they really don't.
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tantamount perhaps, but not proof nor admission of guilt, in a society where supposedly we are innocent until PROVEN guilty. I assume Canada no longer uses Napoleonic law.
Canada never used the Code Napoleon as part of its criminal law. The Criminal Code of Canada is based on English common law.
Someone raised the question of whether some of the children seen in the videos with this guy might have consented, perhaps participated for pay, this being far from uncommon in some "pedo heavens". According to the law of Canada (and most other western countries) a child under a certain age (typically 14) is incapable of giving consent, no matter what the circumstances. From that principle comes the idea of "statutory rape".
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I believe that Quebec still follows the French legal system. The rest of Canada follows the English legal system.
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I KNOW some part of Canada used to follow Napoleonic Law. Quebec. I don't know if it still does. My comment was tongue in cheek re the accusations on the web. We don't have a tongue in cheek smiley. Unless it is this : bdbdbdbdbd
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Canada still has a bijural legal system with Quebec having it's base in the Napoleonic Code. As does Louisiana.
One country two systems - where have I heard that before??
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In Quebec, if I remember correctly the criminal code follows the rest of Canada and civil law is based on French law - again, if I am not mistaken, a law system in place before Napoleon.
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This might help clarify where we are in Quebec. The important bit is the burden of proof and evidence.
Inspired by the 1804 Code Napoléon, the Civil Code of Lower Canada was enacted in 1866. It had four books governing:
* Persons
* Property and its Different Modifications
* Acquisition and Exercise of Rights of Property
* Commercial Law
The Civil Code of Lower Canada remained unchanged until 1955, when changes began to be made. By the late 1980s, it was realized that a major revision was required. A new Civil Code of Quebec came into force on February 1, 1994. It contains ten books:
1. Persons (e.g.: basic individual rights, residence rules, privacy)
2. The Family (e.g.: marriage, parentage, adoption)
3. Successions (e.g.: wills, inheritance, estates)
4. Property (e.g.: possession, land boundaries, right-of-way)
5. Obligations (e.g.: contract law, civil liability (tort law), sales, leasing)
6. Hypothecs (i.e.: mortgages and the sale of land)
7. Evidence (e.g.: burden of proof, rules of evidence)
8. Prescription (i.e.: statutes of limitations)
9. Publication of Rights (e.g.: registration of property)
10. Private International Law (governs the resolution of legal issues involving persons outside Canada)
This new code integrates some concepts from Common law. It is still under debate as some of its regulations fall under the sphere of the federal government as determined by the British North America Act, 1867 (now renamed Constitution Act, 1867) and Constitution Act, 1982.
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Never is a long time and a big place. thanks LE and DS for showing my point, although it was only meant in jest.
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According to the news from this morning, they got and arrested that guy somewhere in Northern Thailand. He will now be extradited to Canada and will be brought to justice!
Excellent!
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My info said he would be charged in Thailand for offences allegedly carried out in 2003.
So he might not get to Canada.
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Well, not alive, at least.
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According to most recent news, they caught that guy in Northern Thailand today.
His name is Christopher Paul Neil, they say.
He was an English teacher in South Korea, Vietnam, and Thailand and has paid between 7 and 10 USD for each child he abused.
If all that is true: what a shame!
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You mean, he should have paid more?
Or something else?
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My info said he would be charged in Thailand for offences allegedly carried out in 2003.
So he might not get to Canada.
TV news (BBC or CNN, don't recall which) said that too, and mentioned a possible 20 year sentence.
Canada wants to extradite him. What about Vietnam and Cambodia? Presumably if the Thais have charges pending, those get dealt with first. But then what? How would they decide who gets to extradite first?
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My info said he would be charged in Thailand for offences allegedly carried out in 2003.
So he might not get to Canada.
TV news (BBC or CNN, don't recall which) said that too, and mentioned a possible 20 year sentence.
Canada wants to extradite him. What about Vietnam and Cambodia? Presumably if the Thais have charges pending, those get dealt with first. But then what? How would they decide who gets to extradite first?
I guess it's a question of which country can make the most compelling case to get the next crack at him. It's also possible that the Thais and the Canadians could cut a deal whereby he might be tried in Canada for crimes committed in Thailand, since this is a possibility under Canadian law.
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Speaking of paedophiles, the fear of them is so great that a bunch of ignorant people attacked a paediatrician, since they couldn't tell the difference. Strange but true.
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That one would NOT surprise me. This is why it is grossly unjust to name people, toss their totally indistinct photos into public forums etc.
People are way too keen on lynch mobs even in this day and age.
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Even?
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When we are supposedly more civilised and recognise justice truth and ....
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Speaking of paedophiles, the fear of them is so great that a bunch of ignorant people attacked a paediatrician, since they couldn't tell the difference. Strange but true.
Are you SURE that's a true story? I recall hearing something similar a few years ago while I was in the UK. Maybe it's one of those "urban myths".
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Fairly sure. Read it in the God Delusion by Dawkins, where it came with references. Don't think he would report an urban myth as truth.
I think it took place in the UK, yes.