Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The BS-Wrestling Pit => Topic started by: Mimi on November 19, 2007, 09:08:27 PM
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So, as part of one of my classes, I teach my kids about US and British history. It is absolutely impossible to never mention Christianity, though I try to do it in a contextual way. Problem is, my students don't even know the most basic things. So, to explain the whole Henry XIII debacle, I had to talk about Catholicism and some of its dogma. Frankly, even I was a little bored by the point, so after explaining what "hell" was (since I had to explain consequences for divorce), I told the story of Adam and Eve. I told it as a very silly story, with sound effects and funny voices for Eve and the serpent. Now, I'm not sure if that was a very good idea. The way I told it would have offended both Christians and people who don't want their children to learn anything about Christianity.
My real question is: what guidance do you get from your school about how to treat religion? I know it wouldn't come up in just an oral English class, but you have to mention religion in any class on Western civilization, right? I get zero instruction, beyond "your students seem to like you, keep it up," so I'm worried I'll make some terrible error just because I don't know how to treat certain subjects.
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I guess it really is a matter of keeping it theoretical, that is, not suddenly saying something wrong which could be perceived as missionary activity.
My school just told me not to speak about religion, period. So, when the students asked about it, I would merely reply that I was a heathen and therefore could not tell them anything about the subject, which was an absolute lie.
There was, of course, the time when I had to explain to a class that Jesus and Santa were not the same person but that is another story.
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I don't get into teaching them about religion. I point out that Christianity has several varieties, beginning with Henry who wanted to divorce and remarry and the students really don't care beyond that.
In my culture classes we talk about the impact different religions have on different societies and include all the major ones, plus Confucianism in the survey. I also ensure that they know how many/few people in different countries are really interested in religion. As an off-shoot of so many missionaries over here teaching, many of the students seem to think all westerners are very religious. ahahahahah
Keep it at an academic level and be sure to add other information about other religions in the same vein. Relate it to how even though most Chinese don't believe in any religion, they are still influenced by Buddhism (Qing Ming Jie etc) and Confucianism.
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... my students don't even know the most basic things. So, to explain the whole Henry XIII debacle, I had to talk about Catholicism and some of its dogma. ...
An interesting question, though definitely not one I'd bring up in class, is whether there is much of a parallel between Henry creating the Anglican Church and recent events in China, with Beijing not recognising papal authority and appointing its own bishops etc. Sounds like pretty much the same thing to me.
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If you're not proselytising, relax. You don't have to pretend religion doesn't exist; heck, check out Daoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, Animism...
That said, I get uncomfortable with the subject, too. I get around it by reminding myself (and answering if asked) that I have no clue which if any, including atheism, is the Rght One.
Actually, I have my own religion, The One Line, but feel no particular need to spread the good word.
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Don't worry about it. It's a necessary part of teaching about Henry VIII. The hard part is that most don't know the English for, nor how to say, "Catholic" and "pope" in Chinese. I guess they don't get that vocabulary in their Chinese-taught classes. aoaoaoaoao. The electrnic dictionaries come out, I ask the Class Dictionary "how to say" and she (it's always a she) tells the rest of the class, and from there the lesson flows smoothly.
Thereafter, I just mimic the sign of the cross movement (TPR) every time I use those two words and they get the gist.
When I do my Henry VIII lecture, I do a little skit where Henry picks up the phone and calls the pope in Rome to ask him for a divorce. It takes about 5 seconds for them to register that, hey, there were no phones in the 16th century. That means they are paying attention (finally). Then the lesson begins to roll. The pope calls the King of Spain (Henry's first wife's uncle) to check it out, then calls Henry back and says, NO DIVORCE! So Henry starts his own church, divorces Catherine of Aragon, and marries the sister of his lover. Roll on...
One year, while I was role-playing all three phone calls, I back on the teaching platform, except I was already at the edge. I tumbled backwards and, in that fleeting moment of "Oh, Shit", I was actually able to kick my feet up and complete a backward tumble and end up on my feet. (That was about 8 years and 40 pounds ago-I'd be dead if it happened now.) I placed my little finger-thumb handset back to my ear and said, "That's right! I'll start my own church!" The gasps of the students at my fall, turned to applause. Last year, I saw an old student from that time and she said they all still remember old34's Henry VIII lesson.
These days we have cellphones, so Henry, the pope and the King Of Spain use cellphones. Also, the students love the 6 wives part (except those students named Anne, Jane, and Kathryn, Catherine, or Katherine).
At the end of the lesson, I show them the following page and we have a beauty contest where everyone votes for one of the wives:
http://tudorhistory.org/wives/ (http://tudorhistory.org/wives/)
The boys usually go for the 16 year old Anne Boleyn, but the girls usually vote for Katherine Parr because "she looks Chinese" aoaoaoaoao. I guess it's the light skin, moon eyebrows, and small mouth. Whatever.
Anyway, handle it with a little humor and the religious aspects will go right over their tiny little heads. The class monitors' reports won't even mention that religion was discussed.
Here, (for free!) are the two questions about Henry VIII that I use on my UK test:
Henry VIII was married to many women. Which of the following was NOT one of Henry VIII’s wives’ names? a. Mary b. Jane c. Catherine d. Anne
Why did the Church of England break away from the Catholic Church in 1533?
a. England’s army defeated the Pope’s armies.
b. King Henry VIII wanted a divorce.
c. The Catholics refused to enter into trade agreements with England.
d. Religion is the opium of the people.
Believe it or not, I got 1 or 2 students who answer "d." every semester...always they are boys who sit in the last row.
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This one is a tricky problem here. Teaching international business or Managing Culture classes I have to discuss religion as part of culture. And every year I get someone tell me I can't talk about religion. I simply reply that "i am not talking about religion, I am talking about doing business with other countries where religion plays an important role so that you will be prepared when you begin your illustrious careers as int'l entrepreneurs". It is a good thing that sarcasm goes right over there heads most of the time. cbcbcbcbcb
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There's an old saying that there are only three types of expat -- missionaries, mercenaries and misfits. Trying to classify people this way can be amusing at parties or during boring meetings.
I'd say most of us have elements of all three. The Missions need not have anything to do with religion; you might want to teach them sane driving, or Democracy, or the Scientific Method, or modern management or ...
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As I mentioned in other threads, in my contract it states that we can't have discussions or teach our students about religion, politics and other sensitive matters. But it is impossible not to mention, I agree. I try to make it as neutral as possible. I haven't had my students asking me about my religion except for whether I was Christian or not. I say: "No, I'm not". "Are you Muslim?" - "Nope" - "Ok". agagagagag When you teach history, you have to mention religion just because lots of stuff happened in the name of it or rather people used to justify their actions with it. Even Chinese kids have general understanding that some people are religious and they know Christianity, Buddhism and Islam (not the depths, but the definitions).
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The standard Chinese contract states you " must not engage in any religious activities". Then they turn around and ask you to teach students about Christmas and Ramadan. Bit of a contradiction ain't it?
The guidelines set forth by the head of our foreign languages department state that we can teach aspects of various religions but we can't encourage people to follow a particular faith. I'm willing to bet that's fairly universal.
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At my first uni they asked the foreign teachers to put on a Christmas concert. bibibibibi
In Xi'an they play Oh, Come All Ye Faithful and a few other well known carols in the shops and malls during the Christmas season.
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Do you think they actually realize they engage people around into a religious activity by playing those carols? ahahahahah They are just... followers! Blind followers. As much as it is funny, it is SCARY. aoaoaoaoao
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At my first uni they asked the foreign teachers to put on a Christmas concert. bibibibibi
In Xi'an they play Oh, Come All Ye Faithful and a few other well known carols in the shops and malls during the Christmas season.
And Auld Lang Syne year round, and Jingles Bells and the Christmas decorations never come down!
At Christmas time I might teach a couple of Christmas songs - Six White Boomers, Little Drummer Boy, 12 Days of Christmas.
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The standard Chinese contract states you " must not engage in any religious activities". Then they turn around and ask you to teach students about Christmas and Ramadan. Bit of a contradiction ain't it?
The guidelines set forth by the head of our foreign languages department state that we can teach aspects of various religions but we can't encourage people to follow a particular faith. I'm willing to bet that's fairly universal.
Not sure it is a contradiction at all. Religious activities would be hymn singing, organizing the Friday prayer or just plain preaching. Religion, when boiled down to the pure basics, consist of theory. One can easily teach the theory of religion without ever touching upon the one aspect that makes religion different from other theories attempting to explain existence and our existence, namely faith. Just take Christmas. Why Christmas is celebrated is easy to explain, just as it is easy to explain that, to a lot of people, the religius aspect of Christmas has gone the way of the dodo and disco. After having explained Christmas, then one goes on to explain that Hanukkah falls in December too and explain that holiday, marking the difference between Christianity and Judaism. Then explain the Muslim Feast of Sacrifice, which falls on the 20th of December, why it's done, how, where and such things. I am sure the Hindu's have some festival in December too. As long as it is kept in a theoretical manner, everything should be fine. Also, there is a lot of sayings and expressions in the English language which is, in one way or the other, connected to religion. Understanding the basics of Christianity can, in some cases, bring with it a deeper understanding of some linguistic aspects. If done properly, there is no difference between explaining religions and explaining Montaigne or Camus or Sartre.
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You can't always avoid the subject of religion in the classroom. Not sure you necessarily even want to.
Holidays are big cultural icons, of course, and when asked I will explain the meanings and origins of the days and their customs and symbols. At one multinational company where a lot of yarmulkes are seen, much to the constant amazement of the locals, I asked an Israeli engineer to come explain the Jewish holidays and traditions to the class.
When talking about Western history, symbology, origins and meanings, again you can't talk long without Christianity becoming involved.
I'll talk about religion as a cultural and academic subject. At no point do I talk about my personal beliefs, nor do I ever attempt to nail said personal beliefs onto anyone here.
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before i signed the contract i've read and was verbally informed that i shouldnt talk wbout religion and politics...
stubborn me...
i did tackle these two.
my students liked it and they have a lot of smart things to say about 'em...
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So long as it is kept VERY academic I have no problem in talking religion and politics. My latest assignment for my 4th year culture students is to take one of the 4 foundations of culture (religion, social status, education and language) and compare the impact it has had on China and a country of their choice. Many of them have chosen religion to research and write about.
Any less academic discussion is ALWAYS led by them, generally in private conversation. And for the politics I ALWAYS say that it is not my role to comment on how their country governs itself. But I do talk about the system in Oz (which is way more socialist than China!! ahahahahah) for their comparison.
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I tell my students that Jesus was a Commnist, the first Communist but he let his ideas go to his head and thought that he was a god and led other people to believe in him and not his ideas.
You know you can buy Animal Farm here, the book has Chinese and English. It is approved apparently. Maybe the governmenat are thinking they are talking about Stalinists.
I see books in the shops on bible stories, not to convert but to give the students some background. I have heard and met, what I call the English Christians opposed to the rice Christians. Poor Chinese would convert to get rice now they listen to some evangelicals going on about religion so they can learn English. I have only met one true "Christian" here in China he does not preach but does the good work amongst the poor. The others are a true pain in the ass, if I ever hear the phrase my mission is to help one poor child. I will throw up
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......I have only met one true "Christian" here in China he does not preach but does the good work amongst the poor. The others are a true pain in the ass....
Gently, Woza. One of our esteemed Barflies is an Anglican minister. Although he must have been rather busy lately, as I haven't seen any recent posts, I'm pretty sure he does check in from time to time. And we also have one or three others of our Members who are committed to their faith, and (as far as I know) they do not combine proselytizing with teaching.
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When students ask me about my beliefs I tell them that all religions basically tell you to be a good person. So if you do that you don't need a religion, or that any religion will do.
When my adult Chinese friends ask me, I tell them I believe in everything and nothing. That I am just as happy to wander into a local god temple and light an incense stick as I am to go to a church of some sort, or to do nothing at all.
But what I do is also teach logic and reasoning, so that when people who are gung-ho evangelicals start trying to convert them to a particular belief, I give them tools to analyse what they are being fed. I tell them fundamentalism of any type is dangerous and simplistic, and that one form of fundamentalism is no better than any other form.
How many western students know about Henry V and the churches? I don't think we have to get into too much history either with this.
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Amonk, who is the Anglican minister? Why is he checking in on us? I really don't judge people on their faith, just their actions. Their faith is their business. I find people who sell Amway a pain in the ass as well.
I am really not sure how I have offended anyone. I think if Jesus was here today they would probably put him on prozac or he could get on one of those magician shows on TV.
Gods to me are those ordinary people that walk amongst us every day and by their very actions show us what is true humanity. Is this a correct bible quote " by their actions you will know them"
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Why is he checking in on us?
bibibibibi
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Woza, no offense was meant. It was just that your posting was rather strongly vehement.
I'm pretty sure that nobody was actually offended, but I did want to remind you to be aware that sometimes strong feelings....and strong remarks....might lead to friction. Especially in this area. That's all.
As a matter of fact, I do agree with you that actions speak louder than words. As we say over here, "Don't bother to Talk the Talk, if you aren't willing to Walk the Walk"!!
As for "checking in" here........I do it at least once a day, myself. agagagagag
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"I'm pretty sure that nobody was actually offended"
Nope, I wasn't offended.
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Amonk it's OK a little rap over the knuckles. Some of my friends are Christian and my brother is a man of the cloth. I am actually having a couple of Christians over for my Xmas party.
That comment about why is the minister checking in on us was tounge in cheek humour.
But I don't suppose you would understand that bibibibibi
Mr. N you can have such fun with your name.
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I've noticed a lot of "Silent Night" this holiday season. Had dinner in a Chinese-style restaurant (as opposed to Western) and that song played over and over again. It was the only song played during the entire meal. I wonder if they actually know what it means. Had one Chinese guy say we should sing Silent Night with the students because it calms them down. I had suggested Jingle Bells and We Wish You a Merry Christmas.
Went into a middle school Monday all prepared with my "Night Before Christmas, Rudolph and Jingle Bells" lesson. Up on the computer, fresh from the Chinese teacher's class, were the words to Silent Night. Had she been teaching the meaning of the words? Personally, I'm not going anywhere near 'virgin' with middle schoolers, let alone 'Holy Infant' in a country where I'm not to teach religion.
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But which version of 'why we have Christmas' did you give them? The Christian one, or it's true pagan roots? Feast of the Son of Isis, Saturn, Mithras and Druid fertility worship? And then Pope Julius' takeover?
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Right on, LE. As for Canada, it was founded mostly as a fur exporting trading post. Religion was a secondary (politically correct) consideration. Most "christian" Canadians I know show little consideration of the "religious" roots for Christmas. If anything, there would be a Disney version that fills the heads of most.