Things other expats do that drive you insane

I've seen expats in a bunch of nations that are one step from putting on a pith helmet and going out to shoot natives.

Well, safety first 'bro.

I either need to stop bucking to peer pressure or find new friends because I find myself drinking rather heavily lately, if only to keep up appearances.

yli, If only we could put an old head on young shoulders! To be honest though it sounds as if you know what you should do. I don't think that Sunshine would be too happy if the man she met suddenly became someone else because of peer pressure related alcohol binges. I think you are better than that. I used to drink sparkling wine, but I ended up not being able to go out and drink because I became a very angry person when I drank. I finally woke up to myself and cut back to one only half a glass of red wine mixed with lemonade. I stopped that finally about 4 or 5 years ago and I am very thankful that I was able to do that. It is a VERY hard habit to break yli once your body gets used to alcohol. I know young folk who regularly go over to Bali and other places and they drink far too much and really misbehave themselves because they think that no one from "home" can see them. I try to tell them that  things will change and they will eventually have to settle down somewhere and they will feel that something is missing. By that time they may have become alcoholics and their life will probably become one drama after another. You will hear me say it many times yli, but life is far too short to mess it up with stupidity. I know how quickly my life has passed and there is nothing I can do about that now.

I think such training should be mandatory regardless of the presence of an expense account. I've seen expats in a bunch of nations that are one step from putting on a pith helmet and going out to shoot natives.

One good thing about being a teacher in China, as opposed to "expat", is that you essentially live in Chinese society. You are part of the fabric, even if an imported artificial part. Some manage this better than others, but very few would go home with totally negative, stereotyped views.
As the cliche goes: You won't change China, but China will change you.

Quote from: yli on March 05, 2013, 03:11:59 AM

I'm a stupid man. Please explain how mandatory "acculturation training" would cut the budget.

Instead of paying people an allowance for an overseas posting, multinational companies should send people down to their HR department where a person in a funny skirt tells them that to do business effectively in Asia they need to adapt to the new cultural context and if they miss their expense account then they are not only terrible business people but also racist. 

[edit]

Of course, as a consultant, you are charging $200 and hour for giving this advice - if you can't get paid for insulting people then frankly I don't believe in Capitalism any more! 

Instead, companies should first attempt to hire expats that are already living here (or in the target country). Everyone knows what it's like to be a newbie, yet those are exactly the people companies send overseas to manage their affairs, instead of first trying to find someone already acclimatized to the local culture that has been living there for some time.

Quote from: yli on March 05, 2013, 03:33:43 AM

I think such training should be mandatory regardless of the presence of an expense account. I've seen expats in a bunch of nations that are one step from putting on a pith helmet and going out to shoot natives.

One good thing about being a teacher in China, as opposed to "expat", is that you essentially live in Chinese society. You are part of the fabric, even if an imported artificial part. Some manage this better than others, but very few would go home with totally negative, stereotyped views.
As the cliche goes: You won't change China, but China will change you.

Some 老外 leave after a while, some 老外 stay a long time, some 老外 decide to stay here for good. I think the reasons for staying/leaving are best left for a future thread though. I agree that teachers are more a "part of the fabric" as you say. There's no way you can keep yourself separate from society as a teacher, especially since a large part of your job involves positive social interaction with Chinese students and Chinese colleagues.

The thing is, I think anyone leaving this place with only negative, stereotyped views about China are probably people who hold negative, stereotyped views of every place.

That being said, the more I think about it, the more I realize that alcohol is probably a massive part of Chinese culture and society as well. 干杯！

Answering the discussion on the thread and going off on a bit of a Marxist tangent here haha

Is there really a massive difference between the highly qualified and renumerated people who live in China and don't see any reason to interact with the locals and the highly qualified and renumerated people who live in their own countries and have the same experience?
For example, Mr Stereotypical high grade engineer expat who lives in Shanghai or Beijing and is driven to and from work and has food delivered and never does anything like fight Chinese people for a taxi or buy junk food and junk beer from some hole in the wall wouldn't be doing that at home either, they would likewise be in a big house with a nice car and having things brought in and resenting their surroundings

My main part time job is usually with 16-18 year olds and they are from those sort of families and seem to do lots of study and are often being shipped off to prestigious institutions in places like Singapore or California, I'm sure that likewise they will end up somewhere earning loads and resenting it

I used teach near a City Shop (international supermarket) in Shanghai, and I have to say, many of the ex-pats spending thousands on their weekly shop could ask for their cuts of French cheese or slices of German sausage (or order about their Ayi, one presumes) in Mandarin that was much better than mine.

I used teach near a City Shop (international supermarket) in Shanghai, and I have to say, many of the ex-pats spending thousands on their weekly shop could ask for their cuts of French cheese or slices of German sausage (or order about their Ayi, one presumes) in Mandarin that was much better than mine.

Hangzhou has loads of rich beautiful young bret easton ellis characters who speak amazing Chinese (studying at Zheijiang Uni and probably already set up for life with their impressive language skills and Chinese friends)

makes me sick lol

Ha, I was picturing Christian Bale as Patrick Bateman, leaning over the deli counter whilst pushing a buggy when I wrote that...and he was in Empire of the Sun, weird!

I used teach near a City Shop (international supermarket) in Shanghai, and I have to say, many of the ex-pats spending thousands on their weekly shop could ask for their cuts of French cheese or slices of German sausage (or order about their Ayi, one presumes) in Mandarin that was much better than mine.

A lot of companies these days don't send you over unless they're absolutely certain that your Mandarin is functional.

I'm afraid I disagree with that statement. I hang around with many of the business guys here and I know of one that can speak Chinese and he has been here for 21 years. It's their wives who tend to speak Chinese as they don't have anything to do over here so they take Chinese classes for something to do.

I'm afraid I disagree with that statement. I hang around with many of the business guys here and I know of one that can speak Chinese and he has been here for 21 years. It's their wives who tend to speak Chinese as they don't have anything to do over here so they take Chinese classes for something to do.

I think it depends largely on your sector. There are some industries that are very specialized, and you can't really expect your top people in the field to be bilingual as well. There are also jobs that post people all over the world, for a stint here, a stint there, and of course they don't expect their expat employees to be fluent in every language. I have a friend whose husband has been posted to Vietnam, France, Oman, Algeria, and now, Canada. Language skill has very little to do with his job (I want to say he's a geological surveyor of some sort, but I can't recall 100%). Another friend works in the oil industry, and when they hired foreigners, it was like, you can either get someone who knows the language and culture, or you can get a petrochemical person, but rarely could you get both.

I think it is hard to generalize about the nature of expat work. It is true though that foreigners as a whole are much more fluent in Chinese now than they were even 10 years ago. In another 10 years from now they'll probably be even more fluent still. Chinese is gaining a lot of ground in the West. I suppose it will eventually taper off a bit, like Japanese in the 80s and 90s, but the end result will be that Chinese language skills will probably eventually lose some of their "wow factor." 

It's a real problem. If you're a manager who doesn't know the language you have to depend on a local who is bi-lingual. And, in China, he aint gonna be loyal to YOU in the long run. He's probably calling you "fish-head" behind your back inside of a month.

Imagine being sent to a subsidiary here that's in a total, financial mess and trying to untangle the ritualized rat's nest of lies, obfuscations and lengthy silences that passes for communication. Even if you knew the language, what's unsaid is more important and, most often, focused questions are met with that Chinese, thousand-mile stare. Meanwhile the big shots back home can't understand why you "can't get to the bottom of a simple problem" and wonder if you've lost your magic. Shit, I had a hard enough time with this sort of thing when I was sent to Canada. And those people are honest.

LD, it is true that it depends on the sector. The guys I know do tend to high management and some have worked in other countries before coming to China. Suzhou SIP has the highest percentage of foreigners compared to Chinese per the population. There are foreigners here from all different countries. I do find that the managers from Southeast Asia do tend to speak Chinese but not the guys from English speaking countries.

It's a real problem. If you're a manager who doesn't know the language you have to depend on a local who is bi-lingual. And, in China, he aint gonna be loyal to YOU in the long run. He's probably calling you "fish-head" behind your back inside of a month.

Imagine being sent to a subsidiary here that's in a total, financial mess and trying to untangle the ritualized rat's nest of lies, obfuscations and lengthy silences that passes for communication. Even if you knew the language, what's unsaid is more important and, most often, focused questions are met with that Chinese, thousand-mile stare. Meanwhile the big shots back home can't understand why you "can't get to the bottom of a simple problem" and wonder if you've lost your magic. Shit, I had a hard enough time with this sort of thing when I was sent to Canada. And those people are honest.

I'm one of the people in my office in the role of the "bilingual local". The Chinese people see me as a foreigner and a stooge for the bosses. My American bosses see me as untrustworthy and obviously in collusion with those sneaky, manipulative Chinamen.

It's a crappy position to be in.