Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The Champagne Cabana => Topic started by: piglet on November 20, 2010, 04:58:36 AM
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Just wondering what makes people get up and go and live on the other side of the world?
Are we adventurous/stupid/weird?
Do you think that you are different from the average person who wants to get up, go to work, do his 9-5 and then come home and watch tv?
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Just wondering what makes people get up and go and live on the other side of the world?
Are we adventurous/stupid/weird?
There's an old joke that there are only three types of expat -- missionaries, mercenaries and misfits.
It has more than a grain of truth, especially if you generalise the terms a bit so "missionary" includes people trying to bring modern thinking or democracy, not just religion, and "mercenary" includes people who find they can live better on here despite their income being much lower than at home.
It can be amusing to sit in an expat bar and try to assign these labels to everyone you see.
Do you think that you are different from the average person who wants to get up, go to work, do his 9-5 and then come home and watch tv?
Yes, of course.
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I'm a born traveler, yet not independently wealthy, so this was one way I could combine my love of travel with a money making solution.
And yes, of course we are different than the average 9-5 cubicle worker. We made a big change. But once you are here I feel that many people do have similar lives. Go to work, watch TV, go out to eat, buy things. The only difference of course is that we are doing it in China!
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I think you can often give people both "misfit" and "mercenary" labels.
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Definitely a misfit, with perhaps just a touch of that missionary (in the broadest sense) naivete sprinkled on top.
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we are here to destroy your life
god sent us
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The economy in the USA ain't so hot right now, and plus being over 50 isn't helping at all.
With no job, no bills, no wife, children, no common sense and a plane ticket, I be here now.
And yeah: misfit + mercenary
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Great so now I feel right at home.
Definitely misfit (rebel?) and obsessive traveller. Have hubby but he does what I tell him ( akakakakak) and kids are grown up.
As regards the missionary I don't think I can really use that one since I don't believe in anything much except music (can I be a music missionary?) I certainly don't want to convert the locals to anything I might represent (dog forbid)
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I saw myself doing the same job and having the same day over and again for the next 25 years and decided that wasn't the life I wanted. I require a lot of stimulation, and felt that teaching English overseas was the best way to have stimulating new experiences without having people shoot at me.
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Graduated in the social sciences, not particularly employable and with no clear idea of what I wanted to do, except travel a bit. Someone told me I could teach English abroad and ten years later I am still doing it. I went home for a bit in the middle and worked in an office, and that totally sucked so I was back in Asia after a couple of years. Mostly misfit I guess!
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I've always been interested in cultures and languages, ever since I was a kid. In high school I took all the Spanish I could possibly take and since I'd skipped a level I ran out of Spanish in my senior year and took Japanese instead. In college I dropped the Japanese after a year and picked up Chinese instead and after 3 years as a film major I realized I'd taken so many Asian Studies electives that I could graduate quicker if I majored in Asian Studies than I could if I stuck with film. I studied abroad for a semester in Kunming and was hooked, I was nowhere near ready to come back home and made plans to return after I finished up my degree and here I am, 8 years later.
People who knew me back home, including my family, always figured I'd end up somewhere else. I love travel and new experiences. I'm sure I'm different from many folks back home in that I am not afraid of change and relish new experiences. Honestly I think lots of people back home would love to get up and move to China or France or Jamaica but most are too afraid or the prospect seems too daunting. I don't think it is because most people just really love the 9-5 desk job life that much that they don't leave, you know? My parents are planning a move out here next year and they're in their early 60s -- most of my relatives think they're absolutely nuts. There are all these "what ifs" that people keep coming up with and I suppose it takes a certain kind of courage (that most people don't have) to just go for it.
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Interesting,Local Dialect. I also took French and Spanish at school and then a BA in French and Spanish. In my day people didn't really do "exotic " languages very much. I remember there was a girl in my year whose boyfriend took Japanese and everyone thought he was crazy. Of course he got a job much quicker than all those who did French,Spanish and German.
My parents also took early retirement and switched countries and they always said it was the smartest thing they ever did. Learning a new language and a new culture stopped them from getting old.I remember when my dad told his patients he was leaving the country they thought he was joking....
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thought provoking reply, TLD
I'm sure I'm different from many folks back home in that I am not afraid of change and relish new experiences.
I'm sure that's true fro most of us. Higher tolerance of uncertainty, less fear of the unknown.
Plus possibly less to keep us chained to our cubicles. Seen'emallonce:
With no job, no bills, no wife, children, no common sense and a plane ticket, I be here now.
Hey, those could have been my words as well! But I quibble about the no common sense part. Don't know if its common or uncommon sense, but knowing that one is on a fast track to nowhere and deciding to get out of the rut and do something different is certainly sensible. 8 and change years later, my life definitely almost kind of makes sense.
Piglet: I'm a missionary without a doctrine. Dog doesn't forbid my telling other people how to run their lives, homes, businesses or countries because I have no idea how to, don't want to and don't even begin to try. (Dog only knows, and being a bitch she ain't telling) I do however try to live my own life according to certain ill-formulated principles, and as such I am a (poorly wrought) model of some of the things I believe in. That's not a conscious decision, its just the way it works out
Your parents (and TLD's) are onto something. Change and challenge do keep you young.
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right on,latefordinner you seem to be a sane individual to me.I hope to continue in my parents' tradition by constantly reinventing myself for as long as it's physically possible.Not scared of committment, just scared of boring myself.Life is too short to become boring and staid.
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I have no idea why I'm here. I don't usually spend anytime thinking about it. All I know is that I feel more content here than in Canada. I may complain, but I love the chaos, the uncertainty, the feeling of being slightly off kilter and especially my own ignorance. I have no idea what's going on most of the time and so I have this great thirst to learn. Everyday, every relationship, every conversation is fascinating and as I make progress in understanding the language and culture, I feel alive. Don't get me wrong, I don't actually study or anything just the osmosis of it all. When I visit Canada I feel bored and then somehow that turns to anger. This is not a better place but it seems to suit me more. I've always preferred the dive bar to the posh pub.
I do wonder how much the lack of being targeted is important. I mean product advertising, politics, entertainment that sort of thing. It all makes me so tired in Canada. I'm not the aim of any of this here.
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I CAME to China out of a life-long fascination with the place. I wanted to experience it on something deeper than the tourist level. And, I was caught up in the great Dot-Com Bust of 2000/2001. I had just recently lost my father. I kinda felt like I just had nothing going on, and figured a year out wouldn't hurt.
A better question is: Why did I stay so long?
Simple answer: Freedom.
Startling as that might sound to those of you who have never spent an extended time in Totalitarian Communist China. aqaqaqaqaq
In China, Old Country is now a vague haze somewhere over the horizon. All the stuff that constrained you there, does not apply in China. Most of us have absolutely zero intention of doing anything terribly subversive, so apart from visas etc. the government has little real impact upon us. And no matter how long we live in China we have no hope of ever being perceived as Chinese, so all that immense web of social and cultural mores and obligations that keep most Chinese so horribly manacled again does not apply to us Barbarians. And if you're at all ambitious, in real terms you may well find yourself more affluent than you've ever known before.
Which leaves us: Free.
There's just nothing like the rush you get from that first hit of near-total freedom. Drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. all simply pale by comparison. acacacacac
I sometimes heard expats in China proclaim that many of the people still digging away back in Old Country were just "waiting to die."
Today being my 2nd anniversary back in the USA, I can see clearly what they mean by that. ananananan
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so are you going back again,Dukee?
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Unfortunately, I am one of the ones "just waiting to die" alalalalal How I envy you folk who have lived or who are living my dream to live and teach in China. Don't take your good health for granted,enjoy every day and don't put off til tomorrow etc, etc, etc.....! I don't know which category I would have fitted into, but the missionary position can have its interesting moments. uuuuuuuuuu agagagagag
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I'm here because I married a nomad who listens to God. One day he sprung, "What do you think of moving to China?" on me. I clearly remember the moment. My response was something like, "Are you nuts!?!" aoaoaoaoao I could think of a lot of reasons why it was a really stupid idea, but had three main ones. At heart, I'm really one of those people comfortable living in a rut because they are too afraid of change, but as I said, I married a nomad.
I was on my way out the door to church, to volunteer in the nursery. My co-worker that evening was the pastor's wife. I shared my recent conversation with her and asked her what she did when her husband threw out a radical idea. This wise lady told me she prays for God to change her mind or change her husband's mind. A year and a half later, my three main reasons for delay had been taken care of, my mind was in agreement with my husband's and we took a leap of faith. So many blessings happened that summer and fall of 2003. Everything fell into place.
Our original plan was to stay for 2-3 years. We just had our 7th anniversary and have no plans to leave. I don't like the mercenary label, but we certainly live better here than we could back home. I guess the missionary label fits in a broad sense of the word. All of our married lives (31 years) we've had jobs that were 'people-helping' jobs. That hasn't changed with the change in country. I think people are brought into our lives for a reason; they impact me and I impact them. As long as the doors remain open (job, visa) and I feel useful, I plan to stay (unless we get a clear message that it's time to move on...).
As for the misfit label - goes without saying bfbfbfbfbf
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Have to admit that In my old job I almost died from abject boredom. Here in China I can often get angry and pissy but 95% of me experience here is overly positive. What job in my own country could i work 10 hours a week (and 10 hours of outside work) and make close to $500 bucks a week and live completely without expense (not actually true, if I could convince my uni to pay for my sao kao then I would live a completely free life) Also I have a great partner here and a growing business so all in all I stay here because I love having summer and winter break off, free trip back to Aus once a year and every day I can decide to go out and see something different or sit on my ass if it pleases me!! uuuuuuuuuu
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Keep em coming guys, these are great! I am truly inspired. Ruth your story is definitely in my wavelength except that the crazy idea was mine and my husband bless him always does what he is told!
You have all strengthened my resolve to go for it..
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Read my tag line - If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat. I learned that summer 7 years ago that my 'boat' was my comfortable, predictable life. Sometimes you just have to go for it.
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I'm in, Ruth I am just praying that my current bosses release me and I am on the plane.
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i do agree with a lot of the sentiments here. i often come across as quite negative on here about china, but now i am moving back to europe where everything is kind of stitched up i'm starting to realise how much i will miss it all.
i will probably be back here before long, i don't see the appeal of england at all, china has been much better to me than home to be honest. i know some things are a bit easier here and can make one lazy if one is so inclined, but it isn't like i felt at home where it was so hard to make progress.
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Amazing food and a near-infinite supply of pretty girls to admire. Does one really need more reasons that that?
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how very hedonistic of you Lunatic bfbfbfbfbf
well not into girls but food, there you have me. Being an ex Brit I cannot for the life of me understand how I stood UK food for 25 years (discounting the wonderful curry houses of course) so anywhere in Asia suits me fine. Not to mention the reserved British stiff upper lip which I cannot stand now.
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Great food, mountains to climb, a university where I actually get to teach subjects I like...primary reason why I am here...didn't want to waste my life in an office at home... agagagagag agagagagag
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how very hedonistic of you Lunatic bfbfbfbfbf
well not into girls but food, there you have me. Being an ex Brit I cannot for the life of me understand how I stood UK food for 25 years (discounting the wonderful curry houses of course) so anywhere in Asia suits me fine. Not to mention the reserved British stiff upper lip which I cannot stand now.
I just got a bit of a shock with this new English guy arriving in town and taking him out to see the sights. I take him to a normal barbeque here, nothing special, just a local barbeque place, and he's so impressed, and it really isn't that impressive, they just cook meat outside for you cheap... We do have good food in england, but for cheap it's still horrible
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I was bored at home, and too comfortable.
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What good food bar curry do we have in the UK,Kitano? aaaaaaaaaa
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What good food bar curry do we have in the UK,Kitano? aaaaaaaaaa
greggs :D
good homecooked british food beats anything for me. british sunday dinner is beautiful if it's done right, so are the meat pies (i mean big pies, not the stuff you eat on the bus...)
personally i prefer english sandwiches to anywhere else, although i haven't been to america, their brands we get in england aren't as good as ours
branston pickle, pork pies, english mustard...
i'm just making myself hungry now :D
also, one of the best things about england is that it is very cosmopolitan in eating. i'm from newcastle which is not a rich or big city and there are a lot of great chinese, indian, italian, french and english restaraunts. plus there are 2 moroccan restaraunts, a couple of middle eastern restaraunts etc etc
i've lived in italy and france and same as china they will make their local food much better than us, but they don't have anything like the variety that we enjoy
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oh and scones and all of that malarkey
and fish
and cheese
haha. i just turned down the chance to go visit england with my parents when i'm back in europe and now i regret it....
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Ok Kitano I will grant you Branston Pickle, Pub lunches, yorkshire pudding and of course ta da... Marmite!
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Ok Kitano I will grant you Branston Pickle, Pub lunches, yorkshire pudding and of course ta da... Marmite!
I'm American and we love our pickles and relish.
Once, some months ago in search of pickles, I chanced upon Branston Pickle and I bought a jar. It's more what we call "relish" but it was tasty and did the trick on sandwiches and hot dogs. So count me as one of the few American Branston Pickle fans.
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Branston Pickle is all pickle. Chopped up pickle. What we Yanks would call relish. No mustard involved, though I love mustards too.
Now here's another non USA product I found over here from Australia - Spring Gulley's "Sweet Mustard Pickles". This one is mostly mustard with chopped up pickles inside. A true Mustard Relish but heavy on the mustard. And a tasty mustard it is.
We don't get this stuff at home (U.S.). Funny I have to come to China to find it.
And don't start me on Tim Tams. The greatest cookie extant in the world.
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Yeah, gotta agree that Tim Tams rock. I bought a couple packages on my way through Hong Kong and am eating one now. ababababab
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Tim Tams yuuuuuuuuuuuuuum bfbfbfbfbf
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I just caught the wrong bus one morning. Instead of getting the 117 from Bethnall Green to Waterloo bypass I ended up on a bus and alighted at Beijing West Train Station.
I thought to myself, ooohh, Waterloo has changed and realised I was different from the rest. I'm still trying to locate the bus back but like it here too much.
"relax" said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!
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Or, just try to book a flight to Canada and find out that CAN really is the international airport code for Guangzhou. For a change, I'm not even making this stuff up.
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I think that you get the prize for best answer,Lunatic
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I think that you get the prize for best answer,Lunatic
There's more where that came from. Check this out:
China, the REAL reasons (http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=3164.0)
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Branston Pickle is all pickle. Chopped up pickle. What we Yanks would call relish. No mustard involved, though I love mustards too.
An oddity there. As of 1990 or so, Canada was both the world's largest exporter of mustard and per capita the world's largest importer. We grow the stuff for export, but we import lots of finished product.
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Are you it's the same stuff, Pashley? Are we really too lazy to grind it ourselves?
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I saw myself doing the same job and having the same day over and again for the next 25 years and decided that wasn't the life I wanted. I require a lot of stimulation, and felt that teaching English overseas was the best way to have stimulating new experiences without having people shoot at me.
eh... so boring..the same job for the next 25 years... bibibibibi
As for me , i like to experience doing different kinds of job and it makes me feel happy...)))
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I am here, for I like this forum very much bfbfbfbfbf...and i like chating on different topics and making good friends,like you, guys)))
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Wow...that's a quote from eons ago! ahahahahah
I'll add to it though by telling you I know one guy in Texas who has worked as a pilot for Southwest Airlines for over 20 years. It's a damn good job, I suppose, but I really can't imagine working for one company for my whole life. I don't know how some people do it.
Having said that, at least he has a stimulating job that pays big bucks. On the other hand, I have a friend in my hometown who has worked at the same used appliance store for 21 years. alalalalal
It reminds me of (part of) a quote from Ray Liotta in Goodfellas. "To us, those goodie two-shoes who worked 9 tp 5 jobs to pay off the bills and took the subway to work were dead. I mean, they had no balls".
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You spend your life thinking that you have everything figured out. You have a good job, good pay, and a happy home with no responsibilities. Then, a major event shake you up and you start to question things. With me it was my mother's heart bypass in the 80's followed by her death several years later. That was the start for me to start doing things that I wanted to do before I die. Since I liked to travel, this seemed like a good opportunity. It took me several years of planning but I finally made it here. It's not easy for sure but I definitely like this better than my previous job regardless of how much I make.
ahahahahah
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Time to be honest.
I worked in the trade union movement for decades, but carried a 'monkey on my back' for those same decades. I was committed to my work,got to help the working class buy another surfski!!!!!
While I struggled with legal wrangles while waiting for a 'special person' to call through the day,or night,time not an issue. A proper good friend moved here and suggested there was a refuge for me. The right time came. I came here, I faced a couple of weeks of being unwell.
And then I started to work here, I remembered the feeling described as joy, I stayed. That was 1992. I am now still a bit odd, but that's me.
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My dad was a lecturer in guerilla warfare in the 70s, and came here back then with a keen interest in Mao and Maoism. He made a lot of friends, came back during the 80s as a reporter (was in a special place during an 'incident' in 89), then started taking the rest of his family to visit in the 90s due to having good guanxi that would enable us to be looked after fairly well.
I guess that it was always the natural step for me to come here at some point- I just never imagined I would end up in Changsha! I got sent to Xiangtan by a recruiter with some chums from the UK, met my soon-to- be wife in the uni, and decided to stay in Hunan while the rest of my friends dispersed for pastures greener and more developed.
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My dad was a lecturer in guerilla warfare in the 70s, and came here back then with a keen interest in Mao and Maoism. He made a lot of friends, came back during the 80s as a reporter (was in a special place during an 'incident' in 89), then started taking the rest of his family to visit in the 90s due to having good guanxi that would enable us to be looked after fairly well.
That's really interesting Tom. I bet your dad has some real stories to tell!
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Read article (it's tongue in cheek), thought of this thread:
Foreigner who came to China to find potential discovers he has none (http://chinadailyshow.com/foreigner-who-came-to-china-to-find-potential-discovers-he-has-none/)
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Read article (it's tongue in cheek), thought of this thread:
Foreigner who came to China to find potential discovers he has none (http://chinadailyshow.com/foreigner-who-came-to-china-to-find-potential-discovers-he-has-none/)
Thank you! agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag
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Awesome site- the Chinese Onion!
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That's really interesting Tom. I bet your dad has some real stories to tell!
A fair few- about visiting Dazhai commune, having to sleep in the bath in XiShuangBanNa because of all the rats crawling over him in the bed, eating wasps, nearly getting shot by soldiers because of his accompanying over-zealous camera crew in Tea Square in a few years back, almost meeting Zhou EnLai but him pulling out at the last minute, getting ALL of their photos destroyed on the train back to Russia because of an over-enthusiastic member of the group shooting everything (camera-wise, that is!), going to ShaoShan in 1970, tracking down the last Jews in Harbin, etc.
China just doesn't seem as interesting any more!
Lunatic Alert: Sorry for the edit, but one of those places was something that might cause some worries down at the Office of Internet Harmony. I think most of our readers will still be able to figure out what you were referring to.
P.S. Xi Shuang Ban Na rocks (I'm drinking Pu'er tea from there right now), but I'm sad to say I missed out on the rat experience when I visited there.
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Oh bqbqbqbqbq. Sorry- you can tell I'm new!
Only managed to go to Jinhong personally after a massive bus ride from Laos. Such a chilled out area- makes me wonder why I'm in Hunan!
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No problems. I sometimes think about posting things that make Raoul and Noles freak. uuuuuuuuuu
Everyone (not just me and Tom, but everyone) needs to remember: Our happy friendly hosts here in the Big Silly sometimes don't quite get the concept of discussing things they might be ever so slightly embarrassed, uncomfortable, or unhappy about. We need to maintain a harmonious relationship with them so that the saloon doesn't lose its license to serve drinks inside the borders of our favorite country.
This doesn't mean such items can't be mentioned, but does mean that we should be euphemistic in referring to them and not get into long discussions about them. Think of it like one set of your grandparents had a nasty divorce and Granddad come over for Christmas. Don't loudly start discussing Grandma if you don't want him to get annoyed. Also, probably would be wise to not recount the amusing tale of that unfortunate incident where he'd been drinking too much before visiting the neighbor's sheep corral if you don't want to be excluded from his will.
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originally i came because i wanted to try a new life. then i found out how much of da bomb china is.
then i realized how much i really disliked America.
being a deposed foreign dictator, i liked having a kick ass harem as well ;)
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I don't think I fit any of the labels, can we invent a new one? Maybe for runaways?
I was suppose to do honours or settle on a career - you know at 22/23 I am getting on a bit.
So I said stuff it, and this is my year off to finally decide.
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I came here just to live abroad for a bit. On the original saloon, I first posted about doing a TEFL course in Suzhou. They turned out to be crooked and I started getting job offers, so studying for a couple of months turned into teaching for a year. That turned into teaching for two years, and I went back to the US. It took me awhile to find a job, and even when I found a good one? I hated it. I love teaching, and plan to do it for another year here and then go to grad school back home so I am qualified to teach there.
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@mimi
that's great. keep it up!
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I don't think I fit any of the labels, can we invent a new one? Maybe for runaways?
I was suppose to do honours or settle on a career - you know at 22/23 I am getting on a bit.
So I said stuff it, and this is my year off to finally decide.
Ah, so I'm not the only one who hasn't decided what to do when I grow up. Of course, refusing to grow up helps with that. ahahahahah
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Read article (it's tongue in cheek), thought of this thread:
Foreigner who came to China to find potential discovers he has none (http://chinadailyshow.com/foreigner-who-came-to-china-to-find-potential-discovers-he-has-none/)
Ouch. Funny and rather true.
I'm here because I couldn't find a job in the UK after leaving university. Though I tell most people I meet that I came to China because it's such a fascinating country with a long history and marvellous food and friendly people. Not mentioning that by the end of 2009, I'd have been ready to go to Afghanistan if there had been jobs there.
But, I'm here now. Twelve hours work a week plus free apartment - not half bad. :surfing: And I seem to be a member of a forum with possibly the weirdest and coolest collection of smilies on the internet. If smilies are allowed to be cool. So that's good.
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welcome Otter
Yea, I heard many people in the UK and back in the USA, after school, are having hard times.
It is a good idea to come here and work and if you wanna get busy, you will make enough to pay off any loans you have. It worked here for many of my friends.
The downside is if you tell anyone that, some, not all, look down on us "teachers" because they think that we are lowlifes.
some, but not all.
you and the rest of us here in China have taken a big step which is not so easy to do. Think about it this way, in 10-20 years from now, you will have a nice memory of a far off land while those who slammed us for doing it will be still here in China complaining about it and paying the next generation for English training.
now who is the fool?
right on dude.
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if you wanna get busy, you will make enough to pay off any loans you have
Can be quite the opposite. Depends on whom you plan to "get busy" with.
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welcome Otter
Yea, I heard many people in the UK and back in the USA, after school, are having hard times.
It is a good idea to come here and work and if you wanna get busy, you will make enough to pay off any loans you have. It worked here for many of my friends.
The downside is if you tell anyone that, some, not all, look down on us "teachers" because they think that we are lowlifes.
some, but not all.
you and the rest of us here in China have taken a big step which is not so easy to do. Think about it this way, in 10-20 years from now, you will have a nice memory of a far off land while those who slammed us for doing it will be still here in China complaining about it and paying the next generation for English training.
now who is the fool?
right on dude.
agagagagag
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if you wanna get busy, you will make enough to pay off any loans you have
Can be quite the opposite. Depends on whom you plan to "get busy" with.
In all seriousness though, i did pay off my loans. Despite going out to eat for every meal and buying things I need, I still somehow managed to save my entire paycheck during the year, living off my airplane money and money for tutoring.
2 months ago we paid off my hubby's student loans 4 years early! In another few months we will be able to pay off mine....5 years earlier than planned. So yeah, play your cards right, don't spend all your cash on booze and wester food, and you could walk away with a small pile of cash.
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right! cook at home, try taking buses(no taxi), don't drink so much, if you do, and try to find things to do that do not require you to spend much.
even if you are only working 15 hours a week, it is possible to save money.
for myself, i usually do not ever go out to bars because drinking is bad for me(i get too wild), cook at home, travel by bus or subway or even my bike, don't go shopping for much and try to chill at some parks nearby my house.
I find that when i was younger, i would have be really crazy in beijing, but since i am beyond the party years I don't require much stimulus other than the night sky, a book, my guitar or the internet.
fortunately, i did not have any loans to pay when I landed in the PRC. but i keep my money each year then go back home and have a blow out month of dinners with friends and family.
to each his own