Degrees

 Martin's plight in Shanghai got me thinking about how fair it is that just about everywhere  now you need a degree to teach ESL. On the one hand, I agree there should be some kind of universal standard for qualifications. Being that this is the business of education, it would seem on the surface that the level of ones education is as reasonable a measuring stick as any.

 However, it is also more than a little predjudiced in my opinion. There are many factors that determine whether somebody will pursue a university education...the biggest being money. Many people simply can't afford post-secondary education and don't qualify for student loans. Others may qualify for student loans but when faced with the prospect of spending the next 20 years in debt decide it's simply not worth it.

 Many people graduate university and go on to jobs that in no way cover the cost of their education. I know a lot of people who will be paying off student loans into their fifties. In Canada it is quite easy to work your way up to a job in the 60,000 a year range without so much as a high school diploma. When faced with these numbers it is no wonder many people choose to pass on university.

 It seems to me that as far as teaching ESL goes, the only degrees that should really matter are those in English, Linguistics or Education. Barring that, I don't see how a Poli-Sci degree is a teaching qualification. I think a better standard for qualifications would be TEFL certification. Just my two cents worth.

There are likely as many irresponsible degree holders teaching in China as there are responsible, dedicated individuals who hold no degree teaching basic language skills, which is all many of us are required to do.

Having a degree in education is not a great indicator of teaching ability.  However, when one is hiring teachers, it does cut down on incidence of hiring duds.  A TEFL certificate might be useful.  Perhaps the FE exam being prepared might also be useful.  If I was hiring what would I want in a FT?  Proven experience and a few references direct from the horse's mouth so-to-speak, not some photo-copied testimonial that may or may not be legit.  Barring that?  Degree in English, Linguistics, Language Education, TEFL certification ... after that, it's a crap shoot.

Having a degree in education is not a great indicator of teaching ability.  However, when one is hiring teachers, it does cut down on incidence of hiring duds.  A TEFL certificate might be useful.  Perhaps the FE exam being prepared might also be useful.  If I was hiring what would I want in a FT?  Proven experience and a few references direct from the horse's mouth so-to-speak, not some photo-copied testimonial that may or may not be legit.  Barring that?  Degree in English, Linguistics, Language Education, TEFL certification ... after that, it's a crap shoot.

Copy that, Eagle.

My Masters was in Sociology. A strange choice given that my great love was lit. I did Soc. because a very small child in my class came from a disadvantaged family and that was something I knew nothing about. I came from a family that had dysfunctional secrets but lots of cash.

In the end I don't regret the choice. Studying in another field opened my heart which I believe makes me a better teacher. I enjoy studying linguistics in my spare time and am a bit of a phonics freak and adore finding relationships in language.

But having said that, I also have to say that one of the best FTs I've meet here in China has degrees in Engineering and Architecture. He makes me look like a rookie.

This is a 'yes' and 'no' topic.  When I take my car to be serviced I want the mechanic to be qualified.  There are some backyarders who are good at this - but to the majority of people the mechanics apprenticeship and qualifications are important.  When I want professional services, I want qualified people - doctors, lawyers etc to be working for me.  Not someone's grandmother who is good at making chicken soup.

So if I want my children educated, in whatever topic, then at least Education qualifications demonstrate that the person has learned the theory, had some supervised practice, and has some understanding of developmental curricula, lesson planning, testing techniques as well as content.

A degree of any type should give the ability to read extensively and intensively, analyse and write, and so has some levels of preparation that are useful for teaching. But for professional teaching, pedagogy is important.

But along with the specific knowledge other skills are important. And for some professions people skills are vital.  Enthusiasm and patience are important for teachers, a desire for your students to grow is necessary.  And these things can't be taught, so we can say there are teachers out there with no quals who have these attributes and we can respect their accomplishments in the classroom.

But by saying this it doesn't mean that we should accept all native speakers without quals or 'off topic' quals as good either. If I really need a Dr., then I'll be happy with the one with the knowledge over the people skills  If I'm not too sick - then the Dr who chats to me, is friendly etc is good enough. Same with teaching - if I really want to learn, then I want someone who actually KNOWS how to teach and why what will/won't work.

Having a degree in education is not a great indicator of teaching ability.  However, when one is hiring teachers, it does cut down on incidence of hiring duds.  A TEFL certificate might be useful.  Perhaps the FE exam being prepared might also be useful.  If I was hiring what would I want in a FT?  Proven experience and a few references direct from the horse's mouth so-to-speak, not some photo-copied testimonial that may or may not be legit.  Barring that?  Degree in English, Linguistics, Language Education, TEFL certification ... after that, it's a crap shoot.

 Eagle,  if you were a DOS and had a choice between a BA in a non-TEFL related major with no teaching experience or TEFL training ...OR a TEFL certified teacher with no degree but several years overseas experience and verifiable references...who would you choose?

 Lotus, I agree with you in theory. I just think a university education seems out of the grasp of many people who could easily obtain one with the benefit of time and money that they don't have.

 

Decurso - that is a no-brainer - experienced with training (TEFL) with verifiable references is the person I would choose.

This is interesting.  I believe I've always educated myself, though I've done so in institutional environments with teachers on hand.  Now that I am a teacher I tend to believe one shows the road map, provides the exercises that make the road map meaningful, and puts a dollop of enthusiasm over the lot of it, and then lets the whole thing rip in a classroom.  It just so happens for me that getting all that done involves a lot of research and the occasional skills upgrade.  So I tend not to believe that teaching is unselfconscious.  Classroom performances are, but setting up for the performance isn't.

So, what's a teacher?  Someone with a history of learning and of communicating.

My dear ole Dad used to say, don't know the professional's job, know the professional.  Which is neither here nor there except to say that institutional employers are going to be the most penny ante, moaning, back-biting knowers of the profession you can find short of your mother if they don't have some way of knowing the professional.  Lord help us all if they are entrusted with employment criteria that includes "And/Or relevant experience."  At least until they have developed enough relevant experience of their own at running an institution.

If you send a donkey to Oxford (or Cambridge or Harvard) all you will get back is an Educated Ass!!!  Some of the biggest Asses I have ever met have Degrees "up the wazoo".  And some of the smartest, and most capable, people I ever met never even finished school....including Hubby. 

Yes, a degree can help to sort the wheat from the chaff, but it is not (and should not be) the only criteria.  Experience and know-how should also weigh in here.  One of the reasons I decided to get my BS () degree was that I figured I couldn't do any worse than some of the (less than stellar) examples I had seen/experienced in my own school-life. 

Turns out.....I'm damned good at teaching!!!

On the one hand, there is some symmetry in expecting a teacher to be formally educated themselves...thus the utility of a non-English, non-education degree.

On the other, I know great teachers with no degree...and miserable ones that do have degrees.

How to call something like this?

An employer can't tell how good of a teacher you are by looking at you resume, but they can tell if you're qualified by their standards.

Given that if Western criteria for landing a teaching job were applied to China, there'd be very few applicants, a rough rule of thumb could be that:
- you need to be better educated that the students you're going to teach.
- you can pass IELTS at band 7 or higher. This means your written and spoken English should be better than your students.
- You know the words to at least one Carpenters song.

Would you go to a doctor without a degree?  Would you hire a lawyer without a degree?  (And would you expect those degreeless doctors and lawyers to charge you more than others who do have the qualifications?) Would you rather go to the old lady down the street for your child's birth because she has had children herself?

This discussion has been had over and over back home when teachers were being asked to upgrade their skills. Back in the 'olden days' teachers could start teaching if they had a year or two more education than their pupils.  The very same arguments about "I know really great teachers with no qualifications" and terrible ones with qualifications were run. BUT if you want any hope of being called 'professional' then you must have a standard of entry into the profession.

For your own children - what skills and qualifications do you want their teachers to have? Do you want people who have training in understanding child and adolescent development, methods of engaging students, understanding of testing procedures to ensure that the exams are valid and reliable, ability to design curricula that will create a progression in learning, plus a real understanding of content?  If you want these things for your own children, if you want real doctors and lawyers and mechanics and plumbers, if you want standards for yourself - then why are other people less entitled to them?

LE - I think the voices here are more about making a case for a "what if" scenario.  In the wilds of America (on reservations among other places) it is nigh on impossible to hire "good teachers" and often administrators are left to choose from a scruffy lot of non-teachers. 

Yes there are bad trained teachers and great non-trained teachers.  But if counted and measured, trained teachers would SIGNIFICANTLY weigh in as the best teachers. 

But back to the question - given a choice between slim pickings ...

I thought it was about the levels of quals for teaching ESL.

But even so - what do you do now in the wilds of America - or outback Oz?  We still require teachers to be qualified.  We still require all professionals to have professional qualifications.  What we do is attract people there by offering some form of better conditions - ie your choice of school after 2 years of teaching at Thargominda or Mungallala.

How many of you with children will head back home to educate them?  if they study a language, what quals do you want their language teacher to have?