Introductions

I'm going to pop the same note over on the Request for Info. on Schools section, but I thought I'd throw it out here for a start:

A recruiter (Horizon) has suggested a training school for me in Shanghai. Salary would be in the range I'm looking for. It's ReadingTown.    One of those schools that seems to be a mixed bag. Not much comes up when I Google the name plua scams.

Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

Welcome LoveSasa!

I think if you're interested in Mandarin and don't want a big city, I'd avoid Shenzhen. It is pretty big, and part of the whole Hong-Kong/Guangzhou/Shenzhen thing that is almost one big mega-city at this point. Guangdong is full of people who speak Cantonese, not Mandarin, and while it is true both are spoken, the fact that the lingua franca among the people is not putonghua will be to your disadvantage if your main goal is language learning.

I live in Beijing right now, but am moving (back) to Kunming very soon, so I can speak to both places. Kunming has a very non-standard dialect that is not unlike Sichuanese, but the dialect is Mandarin based and if you don't mind picking up a bit of a Southwestern accent, it can be a decent place to learn Chinese and there are loads and loads of private Chinese language schools there, some better than others. It is difficult to score a high paying job in Kunming, but not impossible.

Qingdao is a good pick as well, and probably has more job choices than Kunming. DD can probably tell you all about it.

Both LS and ander --  stick around and you'll get PM privileges very shortly.

Hello LoveSasa. May I suggest when filling out a resume or job application, emphasize all your positives. You seem to have a lot going for you yet you sprinkled in self-imposed restrictions. Please don't worry about what you don't have.

Thank you! I guess the reason I included the restrictions is that I'm not sure what is "legitimate" to emphasize. I've seen a couple of Foreign Language Schools that are looking for German and English teachers, so I think I could better sell myself since I am able to teach both, but I'm uncomfortable portraying myself as comparable to a native speaker. I do think I have the "2 years teaching experience" if you count my tutoring and T.A. experience, but not post-graduate. How much to schools actually care about the post-grad part/how fudge-able is it?

Now it's time to narrow your search. Second tier cities offer a tad more money and are less expensive that Beijing, Shanghai, etc. I'm in Qingdao now. If you're intersted in this place, I could give you a heads up. We have members all over the country so any place you pick, there will be someone who can fill some gaps

That's great to hear! I would actually prefer a second tier city, but I was worried that the pay wouldn't be commensurate. How much is the average cost of living in Qingdao (or comparable cities)? I've been having a hard time figuring this out, so I've been going with the average ~US$850/month that I've found for Taiwan and have heard from college friends who taught in Chengdu, which seems a bit high to me for other parts of China. I would happily learn more about Qingdao. Please let me know if there is a more appropriate place to ask about that.

Next, what do you prefer; a university that offers low money but easy work during the week, a language mill that is the opposite, or a private or international school that's somewhere in between.

I originally was very interested in private or international schools. I went to an IB school for middle school and high school, and have a number of friends who attended United World College Schools, so the format really appeals to me. That being said, I got the impression that I was underqualified for these kind of positions. I looked into getting a Masters/Colorado Teaching Certification, but the extra effort and financial investment didn't seem worth it for a year or two(+?) of work. I did score very highly on the SAT and SAT II English exams, so I'd be willing to kiss ass with that, if necessary.

Barring that, it's kind of a toss up. The salary of private/cram schools is obviously appealing. However, if I would be able to teach/tutor on the side in addition to a university position, the additional vacation time would be better for my travel goals. So... Money is nice  , but if there's an option to flexibly earn on the side and/or compromise living standards in exchange for travel opportunities, that's what I'd be willing to do. I don't want to live in China and fail to see any of it.

I think if you're interested in Mandarin and don't want a big city, I'd avoid Shenzhen. It is pretty big, and part of the whole Hong-Kong/Guangzhou/Shenzhen thing that is almost one big mega-city at this point. Guangdong is full of people who speak Cantonese, not Mandarin, and while it is true both are spoken, the fact that the lingua franca among the people is not putonghua will be to your disadvantage if your main goal is language learning.

This is really good to know! I was worried about Guangdong, however my research indicated that since Shenzhen is largely a migrant city, Mandarin is just about as prevalent as Cantonese. I'm also personally fascinated by areas where cultures combine (hence my interest in Urumqi, Qingdao, and to a lesser extent Kunming), so it seemed like an interesting place. It's definitely the one "big" city on my list, and I've heard the pollution is pretty bad -- which makes sense, given that it's a production center. Another big draw was the ease of travel from Shenzhen, but that may just be something I have to compromise on to get a true language immersion experience.

I live in Beijing right now, but am moving (back) to Kunming very soon, so I can speak to both places. Kunming has a very non-standard dialect that is not unlike Sichuanese, but the dialect is Mandarin based and if you don't mind picking up a bit of a Southwestern accent, it can be a decent place to learn Chinese and there are loads and loads of private Chinese language schools there, some better than others. It is difficult to score a high paying job in Kunming, but not impossible.

I would LOVE to hear more about Kunming. To be honest, the information I've found so far is pretty sparse. I actually don't mind speaking with an accent - in a weird way, I've found that it helps build rapport with native speakers. I speak German with a very heavy East German accent and Spanish with a slight Mexican accent (mostly SW American anymore ), and I wouldn't give either up for the 'standard'. How many people out of Beijing actually speak Beijinger (err... correct) Mandarin, anyway? True, as a business lingua franca the ideal would be Beijing dialect, but in practice I care about that less than attaining a practical level of usage.

I am fascinated by minority cultures and intercultural areas so Yunnan in general seems VERY interesting. The catch-22 is, as you said, the lower pay. If cost of living is low I'm fine with fairly sparse living conditions, but I'd really rather not have to defer my student loan payments or skip out on travel altogether. That being said, I'm a backpacker type (in both the hostel and camping senses), so if the areas around Kunming are worth it, that might be good enough for me. I would ideally like to be able to visit Cambodia and possibly Nepal as well, though I've heard it's very difficult to travel internationally from China. Would this be the case from Yunnan, despite it's closer proximity?

Qingdao is a good pick as well, and probably has more job choices than Kunming. DD can probably tell you all about it.

Qingdao is interesting for its own historical reasons (OK, and beer.... ), and I definitely have noticed the higher number of job offerings. The real difference between the two would be the cultural experience and travel opportunities. Kunming would be more interesting for local cultures, but Qingdao is closer (...relatively...) to some more well-known tourist areas.

Thanks so much to both Day Dreamer and The Local Dialect for your advice!! This is exactly what I was hoping for from joining the Saloon.  

Actually Guangzhou Writer, you might be able to give me some info. since I can't PM you yet: A recruiter (ducks to avoid crap being thrown at me by Saloon crowd) has been trying to set up a Skype interview for me with Web International in Guangzhou (stays crouched for safety).

Since I've been told elsewhere that in the very large cities the schools are likely owned directly rather than franchise, is this "better?" (relative term I know) 

If you want to contact me offline, you can send to: guangzhou-writer a-t g-mail dot com. No spaces, no dashes.

I've been in Guangzhou for 8 years and had acquaintances at Web International back in 2006-7. Haven't dropped in since. Like DD said, they are what they are, and they don't give you much vacation time except for the standard government holidays. Last I heard they also don't make your two days off contiguous. They have expanded to three offices, maybe four since I last visited.

IMO, with your qualifications, you could do a *lot* better. Most uni's have filled their quotas, but they always need someone last minute. The visa issues complicate this because it creates latency in the hiring process, but I wouldn't want my first job in China to be one of the big chains like Web, EF, Wall Street, etc., especially if I were over 35 y.o. Since you're referencing Ferris Bueller, LOL, you're a little old for the Web I knew in Guangzhou 7 years ago. It wouldn't be bad, it's just that I think you can do better.

Shenzhen has some of the best air quality in China for a big city, better than Guangzhou.

I can't teach kids, but you might be able to find a kid school with guaranteed small class sizes, high tuition, etc., hopefully high salaries for foreign teachers, and they might have a package for you that would let you get hired during the summer with a proper visa.

It's not really reliable, especially since visa regulations are in flux since two days ago, but EF tells candidates in Guangzhou to go to Hong Kong in order to send their Z visa papers back to an agent in the USA. What I'm suggesting is that *if* you wanted to take a risk, you could come to Guangzhou now on a tourist visa, find work (EF hires people here on tourist visas) while you're looking for a proper job, and you might strike gold that couldn't happen otherwise because of the time of the year. IMO, Guangzhou is the most lax city when it comes to visa issues, but that could change at any moment. Just saying.

Now everyone who's been in China for years will tell me I'm wrong for suggesting the above, but I've seen lots of people do it my entire 8 years here, including me.

One problem is that the uni recruiters are for the most part not even in the office during the summer. However, there are lots of summer camps that last about two weeks. All kinds of jobs to earn a little scratch while you're looking around for a job with a proper work visa.

Yǐngzi the Cane Corso says hello.

LoveSasa if you're interested in backpacking type travel then Yunnan is your place. The whole province kept me busy for about five years and there were still places I hadn't seen. It is also a good jumping off point for exploring Sichuan and T and other places farther West. As you probably realize from your research, Yunnan is home to 26 of China's 56 minority cultures, and while a lot of those cultures have been pretty well Han-ified, it isn't too hard to get out into rural areas and find places where people are speaking their minority languages and adhering to the old ways. The landscape is really amazing, the weather is awesome, and it is a very chilled out place in a lot of ways.

Urumqi is a really cool city too, I went out to Xinjiang last year and really liked Urumqi a lot, even though it was more "Chinese" than the other places we visited. I think there are a couple of posters here who have lived and taught there before, so if you're interested you might make a separate post about teaching in Xinjiang. The region has a very very interesting (and sometimes volitile) mix of cultures, an incredible history (the freakin Silk Road, doesn't get much more hardcore than that) great food, great scenery, great music, and some of the friendliest people I've met in China. I'd look for a job out there myself if my Chinese husband weren't totally and completely opposed to it, heh. I also really liked Turpan, but not sure if there are teaching positions there are not.

anderguyil,

The Spainish girl I know at the language uni, whose credentials are merely being a native speaker, she describes her job as a "privilege" because all her students are personally motivated to be in her class and learn the language of her choice.

English is a require class and most people in those classes have no potential for learning more languages and people who aren't interested in English. Teaching a language other than English would be much, much, much, much more fun for the teacher.

   I got an offer!! Simultaneous to my inquiries and responses with the schools mentioned here and elsewhere, I've also been in communication with a representative of Y&Z Education, which is a U.S. organization that has some cooperative arrangements with Chinese schools.

Long story short, I Skyped with their internal recruiter last night and they made me an offer for one of the schools they work with: Hainan Overseas Chinese High School in Haikou, Hainan. Range in their info. sheet was 4-8000 rmb/month, they're offering me 7,000. They provide health insurance and apartment near campus. Also, since it's an actual high school, vacation & time off policy is on the generous side. Start date is Sept. 1.

I haven't answered them yet--just read the offer email. Of course I need to see the contract etc. This is less money than I had been hoping for (would prefer 10-15K range), but I know high schools & universities are not as high in salary. I still want to end up in a bigger city and may go the private language school route the following year, especially to build networking contacts to do corporate training work so I can utilize my Master's in Training.

So....whadda y'all think? My vibe says it's probably the best I'm going to get without going the private training center route and dealing with recruiters, bad managers, and other shysters my first time out.   

7000 is VERY high for Haikou. It's pretty desirable location, so employers tend to pay less (I've seen jobs in the 3500 range there) because they know many people are willing to make less to live there.

 Try and find out about where exactly the school is in the city, too. Haikou could mean in the city center, in a county under the jurisdiction of the city, or off a highway in the middle of nowhere.

 Without knowing the teaching hours and whether or not more is required (office hours, English corners and so on) it's hard to say, but the preliminary report sounds good  . Good location, good salary and no horror stories popped up in a quick Google search. congrats!

What decurso said plus beaches

Thanks decurso and Day Dreamer.

There is reference to an English Corner twice a week in the info. sheet but not mentioned in contract. From what I've read about the chain schools, it seems to be de rigeur. Don't know the exact location of the school, says it was founded in 1938 but I don't know if they still use original building.

They are giving me the option of arranging my own travel with a $1500 allowance, so I may be able to give myself that Biz Class treat after all!

Still having trouble getting the contract attachment on the Contracts board (45 KB .doc and I did try compressing it into Zip file but still got error message. Actually says I submitted my post already. Have been advised to take out private deets and put it into message body, but don't know how unwieldy that might be.

I haven't been able to attach any documents on the forum either.

hey all,

Been reading the different threads on here for a few days now, it is something that I think could be very useful to people looking at coming over to China (such as myself) or people already there needing assistance whilst they are there.

I have already applied for a few jobs over there and have had two offers, but they are unfortunately not in big cities so a little sceptical, anyhow, just wanted to introduce myself to you all, currently in South Africa waiting for the right job to come along, which the saloon has already been beneficial to me. Any good recommendations on a starting city or town from people who have already done so.

Cheers,
Coetz

@coetz, welcome! I'm pretty new around here myself. As you might have read elsewhere I'm accepting an offer for my first ESL job ever, in China. I definitely used the advice of others on here to get a sense if they felt it was a good one. I also threw a few possible sketchy offers at them too.

It sounds like a typical cliche, but the "right" job will come to you and the social and heavy drinkers in the Saloon will be happy to expose it for the prison or Valhalla it may be.

 

@anderguyil Yeah I did a fair bit of research but nothing actually beats peoples actual experience, I do understand that each person has different expectations, but clearly the people on here have heaps of experience, even since reading past threads I have learnt a fair deal from here. Has anyone on here been to or taught in Dongying City in Shandong province or Longquan Province?

TBH I would prefer to wait for something in a bigger city, such as Xi'an or Shanghai, but also dont want to miss an opportunity of going somewhere off the beaten track that is actually a great place to begin.