Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The Bar (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: anya on June 15, 2007, 11:03:29 PM
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Teaching question... :)
One of the classes I was supposed to teach has been cancelled, but a couple of the people who were in it have contacted me asking whether I could do some private tutoring instead. Have any of you here done it? What are the rates like? I have no idea what I would charge. And do you usually go to the family's place to tutor? Are they expected to pay for my transportation costs? Also, is it okay for me to ask the students to buy a textbook?
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I don't know about your local rates for tutoring, however, I always tutor out of my home (where I have guaranteed quick access to my references and resources), and I do require my students to get certain materials (even a textbook) for my lessons. I believe there was a thread with suggested rates in here....somewhere.
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I get 150 RMB an hour for one on ones.
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ahh yeah I should have probably looked around before I made a new thread :/
150 RMB seems quite good! It's quite a bit more than what my school pays me for work I do outside my monthly salary.
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I also charge 150/hr for 1 or 2. More than two, I would charge more.
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My rates are: 150 RMB for one on one, 200 for two kids (100 each), or 240 for 3 kids. But mostly they just want the one on ones so far.
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My old school used to pay 100 RMB for the extras. that was for a 40 minute hour, though, so it actually works out at 150 RMB for a full hour.
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150 RMB seems quite good! It's quite a bit more than what my school pays me for work I do outside my monthly salary.
This is because the schools keep for themselves a goodly chunk of what the client pays. I think in many cases the schools are actually keeping more of it than they give you to teach the class. bcbcbcbcbc
However, the schools do definitely earn at least some of what they get. This is NOT an easy business to navigate in China. aoaoaoaoao
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Yeah for the summer schools my old school used to run, which paid us 2400 RMB for 12 days (1 hr 30 mins a day), I believe, there were 30 students, all of whom paid 400, meaning the school would rake in around 12000 and pay us a sixth of that.
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I was offered a 10 day summer school last week, teaching mornings only, all materials supplied - for 4000Y. But ... I prefer to spend that time on the back of a horse.
Check that your contract allows you to do private work - especially for students that were enrolled in a class that they expected to make money from.
Doing yourself out of a job for a couple of hundred isn't worth it.
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I charge much more than that for private classes. But then again - my students can afford paying it. 150 is the minimum. AND students better come to your place.
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in wuhan a lot of students' parents were only willing to pay 50 for privates.
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In Wuhan I wouldn't have had many private students. I would have had more free time and other teachers would have worked.
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Hello everyone. I wouldn't call myself the expert on this subject but for well over a year now I have done nothing but private tutoring. So I thought I would discuss how I have made a living out of it.
First and foremost, you HAVE to go to the students homes! It is unprofessional to have students come to your home. It gives the idea of being lazy to some. Not to mention that if these students are able to afford an English teacher they are likely to have other teachers coming to their homes as well. They don't have the time to travel all over the city to different teachers' homes. The argument that you have resources at home that are not available at students' homes is not a strong argument in my opinion. I have found that most of my students have far more books than I do. Further, I have a laptop computer with cell phone Internet (available from China Telecom with unlimited hours and unlimited coverage area for 300rmb per month) and if I need a resource, I pull out the laptop, log on to the Internet, and get my answer.
I enjoy teaching kids and always have. I have taught adults but when it comes to private tutoring I have found they are unreliable. Many times they cancel class because they have to work late, have a meeting, they are tired, or they just want some family time. For this reason I have stopped private tutoring of adults. Children on the other hand and far more reliable. Their parents are making them have lessons and so it's rare for them to cancel. To solve cancellation problems I had with one particular student, I required them to pay me up front and if they didn't give me 24 hours notice when they needed to cancel (so I could call another student and see if they wanted an extra class) they still had to pay for that lesson.
So you may be asking, how do you make a full time job out of it and how much money can you honestly make?? The answer is simple. Word of mouth. I was fortunate to find an American girl who was going home and who had a private student. After talking with her I found she had no person lined up to take her place when she went home. I asked her to remember me and she did. When she left she put me in contact with her student. I started teaching this student and he seemed to like me. So much so that he told his friends. Soon my phone was ringing. Within a few weeks I went from 1 student to 7 and a while later up to 15 students. Having a real workable schedule is essential to private tutoring. Most my students get home from school at 4pm. So my schedule is as follows
4:15-5:15
5:30-6:30
6:45-7:45
8:00-9:00
The earlier times are for the youngest of students while the later times are reserved for my older ones. As you can see I allow myself 15 minutes travel time from one house to another. Having an electric bike and living in Suzhou this is not a problem. Obviously a students home dictates if you can teach them or not. You don't want to agree to teach a student on one side of town and have a class after that on the other side of town. Be sure to ask where they live. You will find that if one student refers another, more often than not they live very close to each other. Also because of my schedule I refuse to do classes of more than an hour long. If the parents want more they should sign up for more lessons. Many short lessons are far better than a few long ones. Both for the student and the teacher. Currently I have this schedule 6 days a week and have every Sunday off. One could easily arrange this schedule to have every weekend off. At 150rmb per hour and 6 days a week, I earn 3,600rmb per week provided I have no canceled classes.
Books! What books should I use???? I have taught out of many different kinds of books here in China and most of them are garbage. New Interchange is one I truly hate. Half the information in the book can't be reasonably taught. The first chapter in book 2 teaches Columbia, Haiti, Mexico, Philippines, Ghana, India, Nigeria, Pakistan, Italy, Vietnam, Portugal, etc. Are we teaching Geography or English?? Half the kids in America at the same age level couldn't tell you where those countries were. I am hung up on 2 books. For my youngest ones just starting to learn English or who are relatively new at it, I really like the book series from Korea called Fun With English. I can only find it in Shanghai. Each book comes with a workbook. The books have awesome pictures in them and labels every item in the picture. This is good for teaching new vocabulary words. After we have mastered the new vocab words we use the new words in sentences, questions, and answers on the following pages. This series is by far the best series I have seen to get younger kids speaking complete sentences quickly. The books also work on phonics with combined letters. There are 6 books in the series and as you progress through them each one has more and more reading for the students.
Now, for my older students, I think the Side By Side series is the best for them. Here is why. As with the Fun With English series, Side By Side has awesome pictures. While the book doesn't label the items in the pictures, I break out my red pen and go to work. The books do teach new vocabulary words at the beginning of each chapter. Each chapter also highlights a grammar point and uses the new vocab words in sentences as with the Fun With English series. At the end of each chapter is the best part. Here the books show the students exactly how to pronounce words in English. Let me give you an example. If I said I was at Jack and Mary's house, I wouldn't say the word "AND". I would reduce it to just "N". So I would say I was at Jack n Mary's house. The Side By Side book teaches this. No other book I have seen does this.
Well, so there you go. I have given you my take on private tutoring. I hope I have helped some. Anyone with questions on private tutoring feel free to send me a message.
The Coach
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Welcome back, Coach! agagagagag
Wow, that may be one for the Library. Nicely done. bfbfbfbfbf
My enthusiasm for New Interchange has kinda dampened with experience. It's not as good as it first appears. It's still better than 99.999% of the other bushwa found in the local bookstores. Of course, I'd never be inclined to use it as a text for kids...
SBS gets a bad rap but isn't really so terrible. Done right I think it can be pretty effective. It's very grammar-driven and takes some work to make interesting to kids. (It's often used for kids here, but I don't think it was specifically developed as a kids' book...) I got a little frustrated with it sometimes because it seems to assume a very diverse group of students...you get page after page of things like "How many of you have blonde hair?" or "Do you have more than 5 people in your family?" or "Do you like to eat tortillas?" After a while I wanted to scream, "Look, we all have black hair, we all have 3 people in our family, and we all like to eat rice, OK?" ffffffffff
As for the little-kids book, where do you pick those up in Shanghai? Is it the big Foreign Languages Book Store on Fuzhou Road? (I want to get one for my daughter...)
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Yes! The international book store on Fuzhou Rd is the place to find the Fun With English Series. Second floor.
The Coach
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At 150rmb per hour and 6 days a week, I earn 3,600rmb per week provided I have no canceled classes.
Wow - when I return to China I might seriously consider private tutoring. That be good money...
And I agree about going to a student's home, but primarily because I value my private space too much. Even when I tutored in NZ, I always went to either the student's home or another location...never my space.
As for 'Side by Side' - it's one of my favourite texts, however I prefer using the first edition. In NZ I taught mainly young adults/older teenagers, and the graphics in the later editions babified the text a bit too much for my students.
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If you think my winter schedule is a lot of money you should see the summer one I am doing. I may have bit off more than I can chew with this one but I have a hard time saying no to money (I have too many hobbies). My summer schedule is as follows and lasts nine weeks.
8:30am-9:30am
9:45am-10:45am
11:00am-12:00pm
Lunch Time
1:00pm-2:00pm
2:15pm-3:15pm
3:30pm-4:30pm
As you can see I have again left myself 15 minutes to get from one home to another. I decided I could do 3 lessons, have a break, and then do 3 more and call it a day. (again I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew with this schedule. It will keep me crazy busy) I made this schedule up for 9 weeks at 6 days a week. Again, I charge 150rmb per hour so for the summer I will be making 5,400rmb per week.
This is certainly possible for everyone out there. It does require a little leg work on your part though. Many of the students that I have during the winter are leaving for the summer for vacations and various reasons. So I asked all of them to call their friends and inquire about classes. It's imparative you have a good relationship with the parents as they will make or break you. Honestly I can't say it enough. Word of mouth is by far how you make it when it comes to private tutoring.
The Coach
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Welcome the Coach!
Let me right away disagree with you - there is nothing unprofessional in having students come over to your place. At least in Beijing. There are a lot of teachers who do that and it works out very well agagagagag
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I go to the students' houses, but they are all within 10 minutes' walk from my house. I use Side by Side with one, ten year old kid, but I am starting to think now we've got to the higher level book, it's a bit too much for him, so I'm trying to steer away from that.
Another tutoring student showed me a very good book called English In Action, which has got the other student I teach before him talking a bit more than he was (he was basically imitating a pig, i.e. grunting).
I get 4800 RMB a month for 8 hours a week of tutoring (1 hour 4-5 on mons and fris, and 2-5 on sats/suns) and basically live off that while saving all my normal salary :) It's pretty good.
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I taught private lessons to a businessman, but it was too early into my stint in China and I'm afraid I could have done a better job. Now, I have no doubt I could crank 'em out, if I had the contacts to get them. Unfortunately, I don't and so I work for a language training center to ensure the steady income.
I charged 200rmb/hour and taught using PowerPoint and preloaded pictures on my laptop. Now, I'd actually consider doing some lessons on one of my off days, but I'd have to be making 300rmb/hour+ to justify giving up that time sitting on my rear.
I teach VIP students at my company though and that is all one on one. I think now I'd be much more capable of accomplishing what needs to be accomplished with the added experience I have now. Personally, I don't think I'd teach kids, but I would teach businesspeople (especially the women, not for naughty reasons, but because they're more reliable students).
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Wow, thank you, everybody. Tons of good information here! After reading over all of this, I phoned the people I will be tutoring and we settled on things like rate/time/location/etc. I'm very lucky because the man and his daughter are both very flexible and eager to learn, so I think that they will be great people to teach! :)
Also, the amount of money that the tutors who have posted here make is quite impressive. It's pretty great to be able to live off of tutoring income and save your monthly salary!
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I have worked out a reasonable deal. I get 300 for the 2 hours, 60 for the taxi and 40 for my time in the taxi. So I am getting 400 for the 2 hour class. It is one on one. He is Korean and 16. He has been to Canada once and to the USA as well. I was provided with coffee and cookies when I arrived. The taxi driver speaks reasonable English and has asked me to let him drive me tomorrow. I will try and work out for him to take me every Sat and Sunday morning as he knows the way and can practise his English as well. Win - win for him. Taxi takes about 30 min to get there from my house.
There are 2 other young boys in the apartment. They are getting tutoring for 4 hours every Sat and Sun by a Chinese English major. They are paying her 20/hr.
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Good deal for you, kiddo, but then you're worth it.
Poor Chinese teacher! Paid like a ditchdigger. asasasasas
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I need help and advice.
I have two new students that started last night. After the class the father of the boy and the two mothers came. They wanted to know if the students were 'bad'. I said no.
Then they said they wanted the students to study topics and give 'presentation' every week. I was to chose a topic, like the Olympics, or Canada, or culture etc. The students decided that this week they would work on Chinese traditions.
I have NO idea what he wants me to teach. I have no idea what he wants them to learn. I have no idea about this at all. aoaoaoaoao I prefer to work with students on pronunciation and vocabulary and stuff like that. What he wants or what I think he wants is over my head. I will see what they have prepared for next week, but the students were not happy about having even more homework to do than they have now. They also have English classes, at a school (I think) on Sunday and Wednesday night.
My gut feeling is to tell the parents that I am not the correct teacher for their kids. Don't know, they were sent to me by the parents of my Tuesday night students. The boy is in the same class as 3 of my evening students, so the parents like my teaching but this is so different than what I am used to. I don't want to create bad blood with the parents of my other students either. llllllllll
HELP llllllllll
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I think you have to ask the parents WHY they want it done this way, because you had already planned a curriculum that has been successful with other students, and this method is a slower way of learning.
Chinese parents are very competitive!! uuuuuuuuuu
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I have three private tutoring kids. Two are fantastic. One is like this: llllllllll
He can write very good English, but he does not want to speak. At all. I've tried everything. His friend says he is EXACTLY the same when speaking Korean.
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I'm kinda with Lotus here, at least at first.
Try listening and talking reasonably.
If that doesn't work, move on. Don't let someone micromanage your work to death, especially someone who has no idea what they're doing. Don't let someone dictate a teaching method and style to you, especially one that just doesn't make sense. ayayayayay
There will be other opportunities to work...
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I already tutor 2 classes Monday night, one class Tuesday night, 2 hours on Saturday and 2 hours on Sunday (for one student). The new one on Thursday night is just extra but I do have a caveat as I told them Thursday wasn't really a good day for me.
I will see what happens next week if it isn't good, then I'll tell the father - in writing, that it isn't a good program for the students. I will use Lotus's and your reason - ie the kids will not improve enough. I don't know what the other 2 extra English classes are teaching them so I need to find that out as well. These kids are being taught to death. They are 12 and 13 years old.
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Poor things. What price childhood?
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I know I certainly would not want to give MINE up. agagagagag
Unfortunately, over-structuring kids is the rule in China, not the exception... alalalalal
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DS, why take the gig? It's at an inconvenient time, involves interfering parents, and forces you to invent curriculum you don't feel comfortable teaching.
If you feel guilty, recommend someone else. What more should be expected of you?
You cold always dictate the terms under which you actually would teach- time, style, content, etc. If they agree to it, you've expanded your income. If they turn you down, you're free and clear. bfbfbfbfbf
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Here's a criteria that i follow here in Changsha,Hunan province.
1.5 hours x 150RMB per hour = 225RMB.
Double-time for less than three hours' work = 450RMB.
Double-time for recorded work = 900RMB.
Transportation costs of approximately 100RMB for cab fare plus 80 RMB. for travel time = 180RMB plus 900RMB from above, hence 1,080RMB.
My base rate for instruction is 150RMB per hour. Period. I do not go lower than that.
Short-notice substitute work is 200 to cover the cost of rescheduling and the inconvenience that entails.
With advanced notice and a minimum of three hours' work, reasonable transportation costs are borne at my expense.
Long distance travel is reimbursed to cover the cost of my taxi fare plus 40RMB per hour for my loss of time.
Less than three hours for a single appearance costs double my base rate.
Recorded work is at double my base rate, as it should be because it will be used over and over.
Under normal circumstances, I require 24-hours advance notice for any assignment.
I am paid at the time of my work unless otherwise stipulated per the terms of a mutually satisfactory agreement.
Email is my preferred means of communication.
I am not available by phone during my off-time.
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hi :)
sorry for the bump. I'm in yangzhou in Jiangsu province i've just been offered by one of my students to do some private classes with one of her friends for 2 hours a week and it's pretty tempting
I have no idea what to charge or what to teach tho so any advice anyone has would be awesome. early 20s girl, speaks a bit and wants to improve i think
I was thinking of charging 300 for two hours and using lesson plans from the internet on various stuff....
any thoughts/advice?
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I charge 150/hr. If she wants 2 hrs, then 300 is a fair price.
The price however depends on local prices and demand. Some areas where the cost of living is quite low, the tutoring prices will be lower.
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Like DS said, it depends on your location. I'm not familiar with where you are. When I did private work in a small city in Liaoning, I charged 100/hour. Most people there didn't have much extra money. Here in Dongguan, I charge 200/hour and I actually have more private work than I want. Unless you are out in the sticks, I think 150/hour is a reasonable price. You could ask 200 and see what the reaction is. Are there any other FTs in the area doing private work? You could ask them what they charge. Another idea is to find out what language mills are charging students for lessons with FTs and go a little lower than their price.
Difficult to suggest lesson plans until you meet her. Most people that age who want to improve their English really just need conversational skills and confidence. Put the onus on her to come to each class with a topic to discuss.
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yeah i will have to meet her to see what level she's at and so on
I live in a pretty rich city so I reckon I'll suggest that and see what the reaction is....
I teach conversation to adults with my school and a lot of the time it's just sitting about having a chat and a bit of a laugh with them which I'd do for free to be honest
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G'day
Righto - here's the go!
I started a Grade 7 boy last weekend - His mum drives him 150 km from Wuxi to our place here in Shanghai. I told them when I met them coming back from Australia that I was the "real deal" for highschool kids - The boy came with his mum last Saturday.
She paid 4000Y up front for 8 weeks x 2 hours - that's 250rmb/hr. - upfront.
Dont undersell yourself if you've done "the hard yards"
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Anya, in the rich cities of Jiangsu Province, a kid right off the plane shouldn't show up to a private for less than 150 an hour. One on one , in a 2 hour bloc, is a fair price. One hour gigs, more than one student, travel time, prep time, and specialized curriculum should each bump the price higher. 200 kwai gigs are easy to find. Anyone who wants to pay under 150 had better come to your house and do some dishes.
Bear in mind that money is only one of three considerations. How convenient is the time and place? How much travel time?
And is it the kind of gig you will enjoy?
Remember that the demand for private laowai laoshi is bottomless. Be fussy about all 3 criteria:
Money
Convenience
Enjoyability
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My private students come to my house and pay 150/hr. I can get water and coffee and have facilities without any inconvenience to me. I like akakakakak akakakakak Right now they are all 1:1 too akakakakak
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I'm doing 2 hours tomorrow for 250rmb
maybe i'm being a pussy, thing is, it's right next to my school, and my local bar so i can go there afterwards and spend the money lol
i think that runs against the advice i've read on here now, this is my first ever private teaching gig anywhere and i'll give it a shot and see how it goes....
like people have said it's all word of mouth if this goes well then i can get a reputation and put the price up when i know what i'm doing etc
i'll see how it goes but i'd rather it be too cheap than too expensive and uncomfortable, i don't really need the money...
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Word of mouth will also say what they paid and the new students will expect the same price bibibibibi
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Word of mouth will also say what they paid and the new students will expect the same price bibibibibi
yeah true. i don't really need the money, i am happy with my day job and my salary at the moment so i'm not really bothered about the money tho
i've only been a teacher for a couple of years and i know smart people make much much more money than me but for me this is all a learning experience as much as anything
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If you are comfortable with it, then everything's okay. Just be aware that your student is getting a good deal and, as DS said, the reputation that will be spreading will include your fees.
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This is an interesting thread ..............
I'm at an IB highschool in Shanghai for overseas Chinese - It's like the proverbial 'Teacher heaven' - I applied for jobs in Singapore and Hong Kong over 12 months ago that paid 3 times what I'm earning at my present school BUT salaries are not always the best indicators of your potential job satisfaction.
fact 1 - we're saving over A$29,000/ year sending our kids to Chinese Public schools - Do not believe the garbage you hear about Chinese Public schools. I have 30 years experience in the Queensland Education system and the school my 2 kids go to here in Shanghai for 'free' is probably on a par with the Private International schools at nearly A$15,000/ annum. .....that is for what we want - acquisition of Chinese and Maths at a level way above any primary school in my home state of Queensland.
fact 2 - the kids that I teach are in Gr. 6,7and8 and they are just wonderful -
..."all rich ,spoilt kids" but just so nice to teach - the boys are just so nice and the girls are so lovely. bhbhbhbhbh
.......and about the private lessons ............I told you about the boy fresh off the plane back from Australia - I didn't mention the constant offers of gifts which would easily double the hourly rate - 500Y/hour in real terms!! - dont believe me ....OK lol. agagagagag
DONT UNDERSELL YOURSELF IF YOU'VE GOT WHAT THE CLIENTELE NEEDS!!
Cheers
wOZfromOZ
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When I first came to my city, a friend got me a gig. Everyone here stresses to the newbies to not undersell lest you lower the bar for all. I was told to charge 175 per hour (2 hours per day, 5 days per week) so it was a good gig.
Since then I've always charged 200/hour regarless of duration. I've had a few turn me down, but I won't back down.
In case no one has mentioned it yet:
- If the kid is moving abroad, they have the money
- If the kid is going to a foreign school, that means full tuition, that means they have the money
- If they are asking you, they've probably already asked around what the going rate is.
- If they didn't say yes to the other FT, he is probably charging the same and they're looking for cheaper
- Odds are if they squack about the price, they'll do the same with your service
In the past, I've ended up sticking to my rules, and for the most part it has served me well. I've become fairly close to some of my student's family
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This from Jinanlive.......
Status: Offline
Post Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 08:25 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Post subject: New ESL law
There is a new law in Jinan. Actually an old law, but it's never been strictly enforced. It is now.
You are not allowed work part time. Even if your school gives you permission.If you are caught the fine is 1000rmb. I should rephrase that, It is against the law for visa holders to work for companies who are not listed on their Z visa.Currently the police are doing random checks on all private schools.
1000rmb fine payable on the spot.
If you do not have your passport it's a 5000rmb fine.
if you do not have a current Z visa - 5000rmb fine
if you are working on an F visa - same
Marriage visa - same
Student visa - same
and so on.
THIS IS BEING ENFORCED.
If you doubt my words you can ask your FAO or the PSB.
It's supposedly because of the Asian games.
You also need to carry your passport when around town. Random checks and fines are becoming the norm.
Great news, huh?
http://www.jinanlive.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=MDForum&file=viewtopic&t=805 (http://www.jinanlive.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=MDForum&file=viewtopic&t=805)
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aoaoaoaoao OUCH
mmmmmmmmmm Wonder what that would do to "in your own home/residence" tutoring.....since you'd not be at another school/business :wtf:
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If anyone questions you about part time tutoring outside of a school, just deny that there is any money involved. You're doing a language exchange, plain and simple. Since most private tutors get paid in cash, there's really no way to prove you're "working" and not just "helping."
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Be VERY careful who you tutor. Choosing the wrong person/parent could end up with you in trouble! China is very small when it comes to the 'waiguoren grapevine' and if they are starting to enforce previously ignored rules, then someone somewhere will already have information about what most waiguoren are doing.
Why the Asian Games would make them want to STOP additional English teaching I don't know. So there must be another reason - ie gov't official is also private school owner and his teachers have been working for a rival company, or teaching students formerly enrolled in his school on the side, depriving him of money.
I'd definitely be carrying my passport and making sure it has a residence permit. 5000Y is not nice to have to hand over in a hurry. And being caught more than once would probably not be good for your health either.
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I'm doing 2 hours tomorrow for 250rmb
maybe i'm being a pussy, thing is, it's right next to my school, and my local bar so i can go there afterwards and spend the money lol
i think that runs against the advice i've read on here now, this is my first ever private teaching gig anywhere and i'll give it a shot and see how it goes....
like people have said it's all word of mouth if this goes well then i can get a reputation and put the price up when i know what i'm doing etc
i'll see how it goes but i'd rather it be too cheap than too expensive and uncomfortable, i don't really need the money...
Like I said, convenience re: location and time are at least as important as price. If something lines up perfectly, and you have to trim your price a bit to make it happen, so be it.
Are you sure you have to, though? Of course not, being a newbie. But you put it well: gotta find out somehow. Good luck with the gig.
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I've been reading this thread with interest.
When I lived in China (Beijing), I exclusively did private tutoring. I would disagree with Con (sorry dude!), stick to your guns once you have established a good reputation for yourself. When your starting off, be prepared to work for less money and far from home. But once you get phone calls 5 times a day, you know you can start hiking your prices up.
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You're actually agreeing with me, James. This is Kitano's first private gig. Once established, yeah, we agree again.
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James, are you willing to divulge approximately how much you were able to make per month when doing private tutoring exclusively in Beijing?
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I worked probably 11 hours a week and was making about 9 000 RMB a month give or take 1000RMB.
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Hi everyone,
I have a few questions regarding tutoring. The US Embassy Sheet says the following about private tutoring:
"Private teaching and tutoring are very common in China, and there is great demand for native English speakers, particularly in the larger cities. However, in order to do so legally, written consent from a full-time employer is required. Teachers interested in giving private language lessons should include a stipulation in their contract allowing a certain number of hours per week for private teaching." - http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=1344.0
I'm sorry if this question is naive, but have any of you asked for this written consent? If so, do they generally grant it? If not and you get caught, do you simply claim there is no money involved? I'm thinking claiming it is a language exchange could be hard if you are tutoring children.
Also, do you simply let people come to you or have some of you mentioned it in online forums or elsewhere? And is a fine the worst thing that can happen if you get caught?
Coach mentioned he is doing this full time. How does that work, legally?
Thanks!
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MB, it isnt naive at all. I was theoretically working illegaly in China. This was pre-Olympic nightmare.
The worse thing that can happen to you is prison. It just depends on who catches you, their mood, the time, the place... There so many variables. The punishments are generally "fines", fines, deportation or prison.
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ive got a dedicated room in my flat as a classroom, bought 8 desks with attached chairs and a whiteboard. my school knows i have this and that i do some classes and are quite accepting of this. But i think there is mileage in renting a room in one of the many training centres and use their place to teach in. They only want about 30rmb an hour rent, and you can charge students 80-120rmb each for a class. The attraction would be small classes and a foreign teacher plus of course the credibility of a legit existing training center. the center benefits by having something extra to offer the public,which gives them more exposure and chances are the kids will also enrol in the other classes on offer at the centre. Also, you have access to an office who will deal with all enquiries and process payments for you. win win for all.
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Depends if you are in violation of just the Contract or the visa. Visa violations are potentially hazardous, as James the Brit indicated. Make sure you have the right visa.
Breaches of Contract depend a lot on interpretation. Goes from "what? who?" through "naughty naughty" to fines and/or losing job up to being blackballed, as in really hard to find work again.
Most don't really care what you do as long as you don't work for the competition. it's more like a anti-competitive clause or whatever it's called.
I never had any problem with it. I just tell them what I am doing, they say OK.
Some things though
- signing another contract with another college even part time is probably in violation of the other contract, and even if not will piss them off. You could lose your job, and get blackballed etc.
- if you aren't available when they need you, due to other classes or commitments, they might get pissed off.
- If any of the above happen, usually they don't give a shit and you have to change your arrangments because your contract is with them, and they will insist you do what you got to do for them, not your other arrangements. This can be at incredibly short notice and with no regard whatsoever to any previous statement or agreement that things are ok, etc, even in writing.(I am lucky. Mine let me get away with murder)
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Meh, take private work and don't tell your main employer. None of their business so long as you're doing your job.
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Meh, take private work and don't tell your main employer. None of their business so long as you're doing your job.
In many cases, this is the approach I'd take, too. I'd only add...don't compete with your employer. It's unethical. And it could speed up the process of being found, fired, and fu...
Well, YOU know. uuuuuuuuuu
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Good point. A matter of integrity, versus treachery.
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In the NYTimes article about young Americans working in China (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/business/economy/11expats.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all) they mention the kid who set up an "education consulting" business for $12,000. I realized that $12k is well out of the range of most FT's salaries, but has anyone looked into setting up a business to make the tutoring legal? I vaguely recall a thread upstairs about trying to do this, but don't remember if they went into the niceties of setting up a legal business.
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In the NYTimes article about young Americans working in China (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/11/business/economy/11expats.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all) they mention the kid who set up an "education consulting" business for $12,000. I realized that $12k is well out of the range of most FT's salaries, but has anyone looked into setting up a business to make the tutoring legal? I vaguely recall a thread upstairs about trying to do this, but don't remember if they went into the niceties of setting up a legal business.
I think the "education consulting" business is more about helping Chinese students hook up with universities in the West -- filling out their college applications for them, helping them arrange suitable reference letters, "helping" them write their personal statement/application essay, translating transcripts and that sort of thing. They don't generally teach anything, they just handle processes that are confusing and intimidating for Chinese students used to the gaokao system where you pass a test and you're in. Sometimes they also have connections with certain schools -- not joint ventures or anything official, but personal relationships, alumni and whatnot -- and are able to get their students' applications given special consideratipon.
You could make a bundle doing this if you knew the college ropes pretty well. Some of my students last year used consulting companies like these to handle their applications to US schools and they paid about 20,000-30,000RMB each for the service. All it really takes is an office space, advertising money, knowledge of the processes involved, and staff. Very little overhead, much less even than setting up a school. The Chinese staff and I at our school occasionally indulge in pipe dreams about splitting off and starting one of these firms because they're the perfect moneymakers.
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What I found out is that you should set up not a school or consultancy; these are highly taxed. Instead start a training firm: this abstract distinction only demands a 5.5% tax rate. Next you reant a chair (not kidding) at a law firm, notary public or some such for a couple hundred kwai a month. Then you set up an account and bring in somewhere between 30 and 50 thousand dollars from outside of China. There's some other piddly stuff to do as well, but thatem's the essentials.
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Interesting, thanks for that. Too bad about the $30-50k, isn't it. Are those requirements only for a wholly foreign-owned LLC, or do they also apply to joint-owned companies?
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... I'll have to ask. The guy I consult has been out of town.
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G'day
A further update on this topic:
The boy from Wuxi, "Tom" has gone to Melbourne but he's been replaced by several others.
I've got a Private lesson now teaching two Grade 5 kids - They have the 3 bands on their arms so they are both the top kids in their respective classes at a top private school here in Shanghai. Their level is close to exit level for my Grade 7 kids where I teach.
Their parents are paying me 200Y each for a 2 hour session. - That's a very cheerfully acquired 800Y for 2 hours. As I've said here in the past ....Don't undersell your rate if you've got teacher certification and you've got what the clientele want - .....professionalism and experience.
Cheers
wOZfromOZ
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This from Jinanlive.......
Status: Offline
Post Posted: Sep 02, 2009 - 08:25 PM Reply with quote Back to top
Post subject: New ESL law
There is a new law in Jinan. Actually an old law, but it's never been strictly enforced. It is now.
You are not allowed work part time. Even if your school gives you permission.If you are caught the fine is 1000rmb. I should rephrase that, It is against the law for visa holders to work for companies who are not listed on their Z visa.Currently the police are doing random checks on all private schools.
1000rmb fine payable on the spot.
If you do not have your passport it's a 5000rmb fine.
if you do not have a current Z visa - 5000rmb fine
if you are working on an F visa - same
Marriage visa - same
Student visa - same
and so on.
THIS IS BEING ENFORCED.
If you doubt my words you can ask your FAO or the PSB.
It's supposedly because of the Asian games.
You also need to carry your passport when around town. Random checks and fines are becoming the norm.
Great news, huh?
http://www.jinanlive.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=MDForum&file=viewtopic&t=805 (http://www.jinanlive.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=MDForum&file=viewtopic&t=805)
What I'd like to know is, is it illegal in some places or all over China? I'm referring only to the cash/non contract private tutoring
I just had a talk with our owner today. He says if he catches anyone part-timing, he will fire them on the spot and give them 3 days to move out. I've asked a few people and received mixed responses. I know he could put something in school's contract.
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You are not allowed to work for any company not listed on your Z visa. Your school can 'loan' you out with the proper paper work. This is nothing new but as with most Chinese laws it's the enforcement that varies.
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Can you work for another individual?
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DD, no, technically you can't work for anyone without the authorization of your visa sponsor.
The thing with private tutoring on an individual basis is that it is pretty hard to prove that any money has actually changed hands. You can always claim you're doing a language exchange or helping out a friend if anyone asks.
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I have just turned down a private teaching job (on a campus, just a ten minute bus ride into the city from my own campus which is on the outskirts.)
I want to teach that age range (college for IELTS) and it was lovely and near. Why did I turn it down? Too close for comfort. Students make friends and go shopping further into town and hence, the chance of even bumping into a student I know is scary (most of the people in China condense themselves into the main shopping avenues in all cities).
I'm trying to get set-up in the centre of town. Nice and far from here but not too inconvenient (apart from the travel time) as it's in the centre of the city.