Poll

Which WILL win, not SHOULD.

Amour
0 (0%)
Argo
3 (33.3%)
Beasts of the Southern Wild
0 (0%)
Django Unchained
2 (22.2%)
Les Miserables
2 (22.2%)
Life of Pi
1 (11.1%)
Lincoln
1 (11.1%)
Silver Linings Playbook
0 (0%)
Zero Dark Thirty
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: February 26, 2013, 12:35:05 AM

Best Picture Winner

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kitano

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Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2013, 01:59:23 AM »
In that case, the only movies Hollywood should make are really long-winded, stuffy, tweed-dripping documentaries, action-packed nonsense like "The Expendables", barftastic rom-coms and superhero-movies. All I can say is that I, me, the person, firmly accepts that any movie set in any historical period will, through costumes and speech, try to make it feel as real as possible whilst telling me a story. A movie is like a magic trick, an illusion, I don't want to see the magician stuff the pigeon up his sleeve, I want to go 'wah' when it flies out. Illusion and wonder, that is all. Movies, like books, have the leeway of poetic license. One of the reasons I don't watch reality shows is because reality is boring, fiction is entertaining.

Reality shows aren't reality, they are edited and played with just as much as movies!

This debate/discussion does seem to have quite a few people arguing with cross porpoises...

Another thing I wanted to add was that movies about things that really happened tend to be more interesting and successful the closer they stick to the facts
Argo and Zero Dark Thirty both did well on release but they have lost a lot of their cache since the backlash against the facts that a lot of what was in the story was true. I would bet that any of Werner Herzog's documentaries will be around longer even though they deal with much smaller stories just because his stories are actually true and the ambivalence is left in.

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2013, 02:15:22 AM »
Yes, Kitano, reality shows are fiction...yet, they, by the nature of their title, make professions of realness which no movie ever does.
Undoubtedly, Herzog's documentaries will be, to some, more important than movies. However, may I ask, have you ever watched "Casablanca", "Cleopatra", "Citizen Kane" and other classics? How many informative, educational movies from same periods have you watched? I have watchen none.
Movies that tend to stick close to what really happened tend to be more interesting? Ok...and who tells you what really happened? Historians? There is not a single historical event about which there will not be 1000 historians all writing huge tomes each with their own interpretation of what really happened.
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2013, 02:18:20 AM »
The thing about Argo was they left in the gigantic elephant in the room: all the people they weren't saving. If this really were some heroic entertainment adventure "based on, but not really" story of no actual import beyond an Oscar or two, they missed a significant opportunity to actually tell a story. As far as I recall none of the characters had any conflict over "the others". Even in the real life story there must have been some question over that.
when ur a roamin', do as the settled do o_0

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kitano

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Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2013, 02:31:59 AM »
Well I don't think that they made many documentaries in those days did they? The factual programs were just newsreels they played before movies...

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2013, 02:47:29 AM »
Personally the only thing that really pisses me off is that there are so many people who will watch a movie based on a true story and then think that this is factual.

For example: Hollywood is to blame for the pirate stereotypes of the captain always with an eyepatch, a peg leg and a parrot on his shoulder. As well as the Vikings with horns on their helmets. A great number of people weren't even born or were too young during the Canadian Caper. Unfortuneately, their knowledge was limited and they'll beleive the movie to be true.  Look at all the misconceptions about the Bible thanks to "The Ten Commandments". Sure, some things are true, some tru-ish and some just bold face lies. Shakespear did it. Sadly its hard to undo that damage amongst the masses.

Afterall, the general public are idiots, generally speaking
For you to insult me, first I must value your opinion

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2013, 02:50:49 AM »
Hmm...though I fully agree with the previous poster, it should be added that the peg-legged parrot-equipped pirate sprang from the mind of R.L.Stevenson.
I like Hollywood movies, everytime I watch one dealing with historical events, I run to my computer and end up buying books just to figure out it how many ways Hollywood has tried to dupe me. Inaccurate historical movies makes me seek information, which is a good thing  agagagagag agagagagag
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2013, 03:05:56 AM »
If it turns out, as you crazy kids seem to be suggesting, that narrative is ultimately founded on nothing at all, then I for one shall be burning a book or two.
when ur a roamin', do as the settled do o_0

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A-Train

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Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2013, 03:11:27 AM »
Quote
But planting the story firmly in "history" means inaccuracies are untruths.

Yes, of course. But, if the movie aspires to be art, then the untruths can give us more meaning than the rote details might. Do Picasso's paintings look like real people? Monet's? Granted, most movies don't reach for that air, but the ones that do can be excused for getting some data incorrect. If you want history...read history.

A lot of New Jersey politicians are angry because the move "Lincoln" got their vote backwards on the anti-slavery amendment. Fine, that should have been done correctly. But to let that minutia color the movie in the face of D.Day Lewis' portrayal is like condemning the Sistine chapel for misspelling the exit sign.
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2013, 03:14:19 AM »
The comments about History being related to who is telling the story is very true.  

For example:  Canada is a bilingual country.  English and French.

English Canadian history teaches that Louis Riel was a rebel and traitor.  French Canadian history teaches he was a hero.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Riel   The truth lies between the two.   llllllllll

Most educated people can discern that a movie is for the entertainment of the masses and deviates from the truth when it makes the movie 'entertaining'.  However, as said above about movies, the general public tend to believe that a movie is 100% true.  This is where the sin in movies belongs.  llllllllll llllllllll llllllllll
Be kind to dragons for thou are crunchy when roasted and taste good with brie.

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A-Train

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Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2013, 03:19:48 AM »
The comments about History being related to who is telling the story is very true. 

For example:  Canada is a bilingual country.  English and French.

English Canadian history teaches that Louis Riel was a rebel and traitor.  French Canadian history teaches he was a hero.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Riel   The truth lies between the two.   llllllllll

Palestinian militants are called terrorists. Israeli militants are called commandos.
          ~ George Carlin
"The young do not know enough to be prudent, and therefore attempt the impossible and achieve it, generation after generation.

Pearl S. Buck

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Stil

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Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2013, 06:39:36 AM »
Education not media is the issue.

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2013, 12:38:35 PM »
Stil is right. Realizing that you are watching a fictional account of real events and, more importantly, being able to recognize fact from fiction is about education. People who complain about historical inaccuracies in movies really should take a look at previous classics. Do you complain about inaccuracies in "Cleopatra"? How about "Tombstone"? I love that Western, however, I also read several books about the era and the people in it. Doc Holiday was not as cool and suave in life as he is portrayed by Val Kilmer, nor was he a faster-than-his-own-shadow quick draw. No, according to contemporary sources, he was drunk off his gourd most times. His gunfighter reputation stems from the fact that he had no qualms about drawing his gun and shooting at people which was actually not as common as one might think. Knowing this, I still enjoy "Tombstone" because I am not watching a true representation of Holiday or Earp or even the events surrounding the O.K.Corral, I am watching a romantized version.
Narrative is not based on nothing, it is based on theme, character, political issues, symbolism, entertainment value but not historical correctness. Did you watch "300"? I did and found it highly entertaining, albeit I know that the Spartans did not go to war wearing leather speedos and Xerxes, by all accounts, did not employ mutants to decapitate his failed generals. Let us look at "Argo" and what the narrative presents us with: a patriotic story of a flawed, semi-broken man who works for the CIA, an agency whose very remit and actions are shrouded in secrecy and which a large part of the population looks upon with distrust. This man, along with Hollywood, risks life and limb to save innocent Americans hiding in a civil-uprising torn Middle Eastern country where the people, notice their nationality, are eager to string these poor, scared Americans up by the nearest lamp-post. Overcoming all odds, doing the impossible, our intrepid hero saves the hostages, returns home, ends up in the suburban house of the wife who greets him as a hero triumphant and what is his reward? A parade? A huge ceremony? No, he gets to read his son a goodnight story. A hero unsung, whose act of bravery gives him a secret medal and peace of mind. Then, we can leave the theatre feeling good about the government, somewhat ambivalent about our feelings about the CIA and wonder how many unacknowledged heroes are walking around us. Que Souza music. Then we can, if we want to, explore what was missing in the movie, what it exaggerated and what it did not.
Did you ever watch "Braveheart"? A movie so riddled with historical inaccuracies it would make anyone with a faint knowledge of British and Scottish history snigger but, from a narratological point of view, a great story about public defiance at unjust laws, of the power of the ordinary people, of sacrificing all, even your life, for ideals, for making rhe world a better, nicer, more just and equal place. That, as I see it, is what any good narrative does. It does not aim to present us with dry, academic facts, those we should be enlightened enough to seek out ourselves. 
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." Oscar Wilde.

"It's all oojah cum spiffy". Bertie Wooster.
"The stars are God's daisy chain" Madeleine Bassett.

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2013, 01:16:23 PM »
People look at Hollywood movies and they'd be naive in the extreme if they came away with the idea Americans where an unusually handsome bunch,  often hairless and large breasted, fairly well immune to gunshot shock too, and often successful in their endeavors. Frankly it's astounding that people do even still think of Americans as a mostly two legged race. After all, it's only movies.
when ur a roamin', do as the settled do o_0

Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2013, 08:14:14 PM »
The more I think on this, the weirder it gets. "It's just movies" is an unnecessary cynicism and the baby goes out with the bathwater even if it does have two legs. I'll assert that every judgement ever made about any media property at all really does boil down eventually to, dangit, that just does/doesn't reflect the world! Strip *all* reflection out of media and it isn't even communication any more. So misrepresenting the kind of reflection your media property does is lying.

Repeat after me: Two legs good!
when ur a roamin', do as the settled do o_0

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CaseyOrourke

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Re: Best Picture Winner
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2013, 03:08:27 AM »
I don't think we will ever have to worry about a Chinese movie winning best picture.  After grossing 1.26 billion RMB Lost in Thailand (beating out Avatar as China's highest grossing picture) it manages to gross a paltry $57,000 in US theaters.
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15811/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=zTDSXkvT

But thenChina has also had some bad luck with movies for the domestic audience too.  Movies portraying China's communist hero Li Feng had it's showing cancelled, on Li Feng Day no less, because nobody showed up for the premier. 
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/chinese-cinemas-cancel-propaganda-film-426236?utm_source=Sinocism+Newsletter&utm_campaign=34a0eba515-Sinocism03_07_13&utm_medium=email

In 2011 there was the release of the movie The Founding of a Party internationally known as Beginning of the Great Revival released in conjunction with the CPC's 90th Anniversary.

http://shanghaiist.com/2011/06/28/empty_theaters_and_disabled_ratings.php
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Before even hitting theaters, authorities announced a box office goal of 1 billion yuan. In order to reach that number, they have employed all manner of tactics, including but not limited to: pre-selling-out theaters for the debut week; mandatory attendance by businesses, schools, and government employees; voluntary field trips (something like "okay, if you don't want the day off work, that's up to you"); the release of the film in IMAX, and removal of Kung Fu Panda from many 3D, IMAX, and regular screens, and even reducing ticket prices of competing movies to lower profits; the pushing back of other foreign summer blockbusters such as Transformers 3 and Harry Potter in order to reduce competition.