Face

Decurso in a different thread talks about a different concept of 'face' for Chinese people.  What do you see as 'face' and how is it so different to what others see as 'shame' (Oz Aborigines), 'embarrassment' 'loss of pride' 'what other people think'  etc?

I hate feeling as if I have done something that causes people to think less well of me - at least the people I care about. My parents always told me that when I was out I was representing not just myself but the family - and so I needed to use my manners, behave appropriately etc. We get annoyed with the FTs who come here and exploit the system - ratbags, psychos etc - stating that it brings all of us into disrepute - surely we are talking about loss of our 'face' as FTs??

Who likes their ideas being ignored, their ignorances shown up, their behaviour criticised? 

We may react with anger or adopt a blase attitude, comforting ourselves that we don't care what these people think, but ...

 Nobody likes to look ridiculous, that's for sure. But Asian cultures (not just China) have taken this basic human quality and turned it into a fine art. The way face ties into the food and drink culture for example. If you out drink the senior member of your table, you cause him to lose face. How absurd. Or if you decline an offer to drink with somebody it automatically means you don't like them. I think the biggest difference between Western face and Chinese face is that the Chinese apply it on so many levels you need a degree in Asian Studies to fully comprehend how much it dominates every aspect of culture here.

 Most (though cerainly not all) Westerners possess the ability to laugh at themselves and their own mistakes. We can admit embarrassment without feeling shame. We can take potentially humiliationg situations and learn from them. Not a lot of Chinese really seem to able to laugh at themselves. There are exceptions, but they are rare.

On questions like these, I usually turn to Lin Yutang. If you haven't read My Country, My People, do so ASAP.

On "face", here are a few nuggets from old Lin:

"It is easier to give an example of Chinese face than to define it..." He then goes on to give an example which I'll paraphrase: A city official drives 60 MPH through the streets even though the speed limit is 35 MPH. By doing so, he gains "a lot of face". If his car hits someone and the cops come, he hands them his card and then drives away. He gains "greater face still." However, if the cop fails to give him "face" based on the card, the official starts talking about his connections and then drives away, "his face waxes still greater." If the cop insists on taking the man to the police station, and the official picks up the phone and calls the chief of police who orders him released and then fires the police officer, "the face of the official becomes truly beatific."

Lin again: "To confuse "face" with Western "honor" is to make a grievous error." And he provides another example. If the ugly son of a well-connected official goes to a whorehouse, is insulted, and returns with the police to order the arrest of the girl and the closing of the house, the boy is "getting 'face,' but we would hardly say he is guarding his "honor."

I would add that the official in the first story and the boy in the second story obviously exhibit no shame either in the process of gaining (or increasing) their face.

This book?

http://www.archive.org/details/MyCountryAndMyPeople

"One of the most important movements in China to-day is the
discovery of their own country by young Chinese intellectuals..."

Lin YuTang, circa 1936.

Yep, that's the one. As relevant today as it was in 1936.

BTW, you can usually find it in the foreign language section of any half-way decently stocked Xinhua or Bookoo bookstore.