In the community

If we are needy enough we will pat ourselves on the back for it, but if we are honest, we will admit that whatever we do, we do for ourselves, and we get back way more than we give.

so true, and it seems that once you are emotionally involved with students you cant help but want to support their development and that usually means extra curricular activities, but as you say the reward is way more than what we give when we get the appreciation of the kids.
I couldnt believe the roar and cheering from the kids in the first school assembly when the students heard i was teaching them oral classes this semester. Most embarrassing! but  yeah it felt kinda nice too.

I'm not 100% opposed to extra things like this as long as it is 100% voluntary.  I'm still in touch with many of my Chinese students (just helped edit a speech for one of them) and even one of my American students and am happy to help them because I consider them to be friends.

The problem (actually much worse in the US than China) is that once you volunteer for something twice in a row, it somehow becomes part of the unofficial job description.

30-odd years ago, when I was working a summer job in Canada, I was told, "Do a favour for someone today and it's part of your job tomorrow"

Well, my non-work time is quite precious to me, simply because I'm finishing an MA. When I signed my 20hr week contract, that's what I expect to do at this point. Of course, a few extra hours each week are needed for planning, marking etc, but I accounted for this.

If someone calls me "inviting" me to do something (ie. the CCTV cup thingie on Saturday just gone...), I will ummmm and aaahhhh and say 'let me check my diary'. I actually said no at first (I just did a big paper last week and wanted a break before the next one!), then called back to say I could 'shuffle' what I was doing around to fit it in. At least that way they will get to understand that I don't give my time away willy nilly.

Hope I don't come across TOO mean, but I did have this plan when I returned to China 2 years ago and have learnt to say that firm 'no'! I just want to do what I'm contracted for so I can get my studies done before leaving China for good (that's for another day).

Interesting coincidence that doing extra-curricular stuff vs. not seems to divide members along parental lines.  Strangely, those with kids are less likely to throw around their spare time.

If it's work I demand to be paid. "Community" work for my actual work, is to be a responsible teacher and talk to students between classes, in e-mail, etc. in an advisory capacity.  Throw in a few school lunches and maybe one public event on behalf of the school. That's my limit. Anything beyond that and I demand to be paid. My free time's my own. I've found that often giving an arm will lead to extra pro-bono work in the future where legs are taken. It also fucks over other FTs who may end up having similar expectations placed upon them, when they don't care to be so "generous." They shouldn't have to deal with it, either. A school leader saying, "well, XYZ teacher is doing it," should not be something I, nor my colleagues should have to contend with when we turn down non-contractual work on behalf of anyone.

I show up, clean, sober, prepared, and I do my lessons and genuinely care about the progress of my students. I look out for their safety, well being and do my best with the time alloted them. Occasionally I will eat lunch with them because it's my choice. With that said, I am not given the pensions or other caveats of the local teachers, so why should I go beyond what is in the contract when I am clearly a pebble in a sea of boulders whose importance to the university is of greater concern.

Additionally, I shouldn't have to open up my apartment to students for hanging out, playing games, etc. because another teacher does, nor should it be held against me that another teacher does. My time is MY TIME. My space is MY SPACE. If they want me to do other things then it should be in the contract.

Also, any invitation to do something is most often a way to get the other person face and they get something from it. Unless there's a price paid for my service, what do I get out of it?

There is a line that must be drawn.

If it's work I demand to be paid.

Additionally, I shouldn't have to open up my apartment to students for hanging out, playing games, etc. because another teacher does, nor should it be held against me that another teacher does.

There is a line that must be drawn.

This depends on your definition of work.  I DON'T see coaching students as work - I see it as something I enjoy doing, something I VOLUNTEER for, done at the time I choose, and the place of my choosing. I enjoy having intelligent, keen, lively people around me.  I LOVE debating, enjoy discussing all sorts of issues, researching stuff etc.  This gives me a chance to do it.  It's also a hell of a lot of fun.

I do this in my apartment because it is convenient for ME - I have my books, magazines, computer etc handy, I can sit in air-conditioned comfort, sipping tea while I do it. 

I have no real interest in how much other teachers have students at their apartments, and I am pretty sure they don't give a damn about what I do.

We draw our own lines, based on what we are comfortable with, what we enjoy and what makes us feel good.  I don't think there is a 'right' line anywhere here.  And I would certainly resent it if any other FT told me to do more or less, and I would equally resent it if the Admin of the Uni tried to do so as well.

This depends on your definition of work.  I DON'T see coaching students as work

I see it as work. I am a teacher. A teacher is an academic coach. I see no differentiation between the two, except I contribute to society and sports detract from it, but that's neither here nor there.

I enjoy having intelligent, keen, lively people around me.  I LOVE debating, enjoy discussing all sorts of issues, researching stuff etc.  This gives me a chance to do it.  It's also a hell of a lot of fun.

I do too. On my free time. That's what I do with friends.

I have no real interest in how much other teachers have students at their apartments, and I am pretty sure they don't give a damn about what I do.

Then you're lucky.  I haven't had that pleasure. I've had jobs where the FAO would often ask me why I couldn't be more like the teachers who always had students over during the weekends. You know, because the university sees it as a cheap way to brag about their teachers and use it s a selling point. My current job is not like this, thank god, but my previous university was like this. I've heard similar stories from drinking buddies as well.

And I would certainly resent it if any other FT told me to do more or less, and I would equally resent it if the Admin of the Uni tried to do so as well.

Then you know how I feel.

Interesting coincidence that doing extra-curricular stuff vs. not seems to divide members along parental lines.  Strangely, those with kids are less likely to throw around their spare time.

That's a "YET" answer!!  Just wait - they end up volunteering a whole heap more the older their children get.

First you start working to improve childbirth practices in your local hospital and introduce childbirth education classes in your small town.  Then it's breastfeeding support groups, and support groups for parents with children with disabilities etc.  Move on to kindy volunteering (committees, 'teacher aid roster', weekend working bees), tuckshop duty, morning reading at primary school, P&C at the school, fundraising.  High-school - P&C again, more fundraising, coaching the debate or football team, helping teachers supervise on excursions.  After school activities - Committee for whatever your child is interested in (Youth Orchestra, hockey, dancing etc), working bees and fundraising for those activities, sewing costumes, driving the team/group to competitions.

And you've still got the other community stuff - Red Cross appeals, Women's Shelter C'tees, local progress associations (or equivalent). 

Life is filled with volunteering - and some/much of it is obligatory, especially during your child's early - mid school years.  Tuckshop is NOT fun!  P & C meetings - not fun. Working bees at kindies/schools - boring.  Sewing dancing costumes - 3:00am in the morning fiddling with yards of stuff trying to make bee costumes for 6 cute little bees??  NOT fun!  This stuff is WORK - expected and pretty well obligatory if you're a parent.  Totally UNPAID!  And pretty generally unthanked - it is your child after all that this will benefit.

Prior to coming to China I had only a short period where I wasn't living with young adults.  My daughters and their friends cluttered up the place on a daily basis.  I am used to having a group of young people around, sitting at my kitchen table drinking coffee (or whatever ), talking, laughing, discussing lives and loves, plans and problems.  I am used to people wandering in and out, checking out my frig, asking if I have anything to nibble on, asking me to check their assignments, people crashing on my sofa or spare bed when it's too late to go home.  It certainly made life lively and interesting.

Here, it comes across pretty much the same to me.  Except I have WAY more control!!  Who, when, how often etc - all up to me. NONE of it required, expected or obligatory.

And I still end up with the same enjoyment of having young people round, being a tiny part of their lives.  And in China it has the added bonus that you learn so much more about Chinese life and culture, ideas and personal histories.  Almost no better way to increase your understanding of this place and its people.  The students are articulate, want to talk, are old enough to have talked with parents and grandparents, old enough to analyse what is happening to their surroundings, and once they trust you, young and honest enough to say what they feel.

For me - there is a world of difference between teaching and coaching.

Being part of a community means that you also contribute stuff here and there as your ability/time etc allows. In turn, the community contributes to you - in intangibles.

And back to the original premise:  as human beings, should we contribute more than we are paid for, more than we are obligated to for our communities?   

Totally individual answer - and one where you need to define YOUR community. 

Back home it is easier to contribute to the broader community.  And if we are honest, we would look back over our lives and see how much other people's volunteering made our lives better (parents mowing the sports fields, being referees/coaches for our sports, running the committees for groups we belonged to, fundraising for school libraries, sports equipment etc etc).

Here the easiest community to define is the uni/school we work in. This is not the only community we can define though.  There is the broader community, and a number of people here are involved in volunteering in that community (orphanages, libraries, charities etc).

If we DON'T contribute more than we are paid to, then can we genuinely claim to be a  part of a community? 

Probably 80-90% of foreigners here aren't interested in doing anything more than having a nice, paid working holiday and so have zero interest in being part of the community.  No harm in that - they do their year or so here, go back home to what they call the 'real' world.  But others here, probably those staying for the longer term, MAY want to become less of a water beetle skimming across the surface of this country, and more a part of it.  And joining in the community is the best way of doing that.

So then it comes back to what you enjoy doing.  We volunteer to do stuff we feel comfortable with or enjoy.  And you are the only judge of your level of enjoyment.  And the payoffs are intangible - our own feelings of enjoyment, friendships with people we wouldn't otherwise have met, more knowledge of what is around us, definitely an understanding of a China we would NEVER have otherwise - what ever.  Stuff you can't be paid for.

So I guess it comes back to how you want to see yourself operating here.

If we DON'T contribute more than we are paid to, then can we genuinely claim to be a  part of a community? 

If such a question is raised to foreign teachers by foreign teachers, then I refer you to a comment you made previously in the thread:

And I would certainly resent it if any other FT told me to do more or less, and I would equally resent it if the Admin of the Uni tried to do so as well.

Suggesting and telling: there's a thin line between the two.

  But others here, probably those staying for the longer term, MAY want to become less of a water beetle skimming across the surface of this country, and more a part of it.  And joining in the community is the best way of doing that.

Again, I refer you to this:

And I would certainly resent it if any other FT told me to do more or less, and I would equally resent it if the Admin of the Uni tried to do so as well.

Which made me scratch my head when I read this:

And you are the only judge of your level of enjoyment.  And the payoffs are intangible - our own feelings of enjoyment, friendships with people we wouldn't otherwise have met, more knowledge of what is around us, definitely an understanding of a China we would NEVER have otherwise - what ever.  Stuff you can't be paid for.

Because it reads like a presumptuous statement implying that some of us would enjoy "volunteering" our hard-earned free time to justify our existences here, when I don't ask the same of foreign workers living in my own country.

I pay taxes here. I follow the rules. I am an educator. I am not here to make China bend to my rules nor disrupt its social system and force it to bend to my ways, so am I being a "beetle," specially when billions of Chinese couldn't be motivated to volunteer for their own communities?

I respect your intentions, Lotus, but it really feels like you're trying to balance some attempt at being diplomatic with some statements, then there's this feeling like you're on a moral high horse bragging to others with some other statements. It's confusing, and feels a bit insulting.

So I guess it comes back to how you want to see yourself operating here.

Indeed, it does. I follow the old, original Star Trek "prime directive," here. The society will never have me as one of their own, and it's not my society to to change. I live and function within it, respect the rights of the locals to their manifest destiny and do not seek to leave a negative mark. I exist. What I chose to do within the community is of no one's business if it is following the local laws and regulations and I can't help but feel like you're casting ethical assertions that people those who volunteer their free time to do extra work for their employers is somehow, "giving back" to the "community," and in not doing so we're being a "beetle skimming across the surface of the country," as if those of us who view doing anything out of contract for our employers as free work, as not being a part of the community.

I earn an honest living here. I pay local taxes. I follow the laws here. I respect my students, my employers and my neighbors.  I spend a lot of money in the local community. I get to know the people around me and do my best to live life here as I did back home without creating social conflict: and it works. I have local friends and lovers. ON a general level nobody is telling me to go home. Many are asking em to stick around. How am I not a "part" of the community? the rules and regulations mean I can never be a part of the society here, but society and community  are not always on the same page in many parts of the world.

I find it impossible to 'brag' about doing stuff that I do for sheer enjoyment, stuff I do for ME!  That it happens to be useful (I hope) for others is sheer good luck.  BUT - it does make me feel part of the community in ways that wouldn't have otherwise happened, especially as a foreigner.  Without getting into stuff like this, we would find it way more difficult to see parts of this culture, and for ME that is one of the main reasons for being here.  So while I will forever be a 'bignose' and an outsider to 99.999% of the population, to the society as a whole, by involving myself in stuff like this, then I can move into some of the insider places, and become part of 'community'.  One of the intangibles I gain.

Quote from: Lotus Eater on December 24, 2008, 04:06:54 PM

If we DON'T contribute more than we are paid to, then can we genuinely claim to be a  part of a community?

This is a generic question - and one you could just as easily ask back home.  Mere existence doesn't make you a genuine 'part' of something.

Being TOLD to do something that is not part of your workload that you feel is work is definitely to be resented!! And I would never tell people that they should be doing something, especially if it's stuff they don't enjoy.  Anything that you don't enjoy, you don't do!

BUT... on the other hand, telling me that what I am doing is work when to me it is pleasure equally causes resentment. It carries with it the implications that I am naive,  being taken advantage of, being a goody-two-shoes (how terrible!!), and silly for doing things that I am not paid for. Equally insulting.

It also has the weird vibe of 'Don't do that, you make the rest of us look bad.'  Which is total BS - that is your thought, your perception, not the thoughts of anyone else around.  That form of thinking can be extrapolated to a million other things - don't put too much preparation time into your classes - it makes the people who just want to do the minimum bad.  Don't learn Chinese, it makes the rest of us who don't try look lazy.  All total BS.  We each do what we choose, and gain/lose credibility for ourselves.  We do impact on the view of those who come after us - but as long as you do exactly what you say YOU are doing, your credibility with the people you contact should be OK, and that should pass on to those coming after you.

My point here is that I AM paid for these things - as are all volunteers.  We are paid for our time/energy etc etc in intangibles, just not cash. And apart from the stuff we do because we are parents and want good stuff for our children (again a personal choice!) any volunteer stuff we do, we do for the intangible payments.  And seeing yourself as part of community is part of that.

I also don't feel that my free time is hard earned!    Working 12 hours per week compared to 10 hour days, having a total of 3-5 months holiday per year GIVES me a hell of a lot of free time - not anything I had to earn the hard way.  So if I choose to spend it becoming more involved in my surroundings, enjoying the company of young, interesting, dedicated people, learning more about the culture, I don't see it as any sort of sacrifice. 

So in effect it comes back to these areas: What is your definition of community (vs society), and do you have a responsibility to it?  What do you expect of the people around you?  Do you expect help when you need it, do you expect support from others?  Do you want people within your community (here or at home)to take responsibility for the many things that happen in it? 

And do the people around you do more than they are paid for? Does anyone try to make your life a little better? Help you buy tickets, pick up your mail, translate stuff for you, upload your marks to the university internet when other teachers have to do it themselves, take you shopping, give you advice?  Do total strangers help you out? 





Oh yes - and as it's Christmas time - please think about the orphanage in Lhasa and the School for the Disabled in Beijing.   If you've got a few kuai left over from the banquets and fine wines (or dodgy baijiu!) .....