Foreigner Crackdown (was "Members in Beijing, ...)

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kitano

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2012, 05:34:25 PM »
The worst thing about the way that North Korean illegals are such a big problem in North China is that the Chinese government is the one that backs and provides half of the funding for the regime that is causing them to flee

Even with a basic understanding of Communism like mine you can see that that setup is more what Communism was designed to stop than the EU or US exploiting illegal workers!

Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2012, 05:43:25 PM »
So is it just a lot of hoopla about sweeping up foreign trash and the poor North Koreans just trying to get out of their nightmare of a country got caught up in it? Surely these people aren't the trash they hoped to find?

I'll 'answer' your questions with a question -

Why would they 'give a shit' about the nationality of someone who is illegally in the country?  mmmmmmmmmm

I think it matters and I think they do give a shit. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of North Koreans living here illegally. Some have been here for decades. If you read that article, one of the local officials even hints as much -- that you can't just go sweeping up people who have been here for years and years and built families and such without some possibility that it might backfire. Even in America there has been no massive roundup and deportation of illegal immigrants because the issue is more complex when you're talking about an entire group rather than a few isolated individuals, especially when your country has itself a complicated relationship with those immigrants' home country.

China also has to consider that this country is itself one of the biggest "exporters," so to speak, of illegal immigrants in the world. China I am sure doesn't want these countries playing tit for tat and sending Chinese immigrants packing back to China, so they do have to handle their own illegal immigrant situation somewhat delicately.

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cruisemonkey

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2012, 01:06:32 AM »
I think it matters and I think they do give a shit. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of North Koreans living here illegally. Some have been here for decades. If you read that article, one of the local officials even hints as much -- that you can't just go sweeping up people who have been here for years and years and built families and such without some possibility that it might backfire. Even in America there has been no massive roundup and deportation of illegal immigrants because the issue is more complex when you're talking about an entire group rather than a few isolated individuals, especially when your country has itself a complicated relationship with those immigrants' home country.

China also has to consider that this country is itself one of the biggest "exporters," so to speak, of illegal immigrants in the world. China I am sure doesn't want these countries playing tit for tat and sending Chinese immigrants packing back to China, so they do have to handle their own illegal immigrant situation somewhat delicately.

Good points.

I forgot about the 2nd+ generation of illegal immigrants born in any country. I don't know Chinese law in this regard. However, I assume it is difficult to claim 'refugee status' if one doesn't officially exist in either country... especially when the 'host' country supports the political idiocy of the country of one's progenitors.
The Koreans once gave me five minutes notice - I didn't know what to do with the extra time.

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zero

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2012, 03:30:22 AM »
My girlfriend told me not to wear my striped trackies because the guy looked like me and was wearing striped trackies
Also don't say "trackies," as the guy was British, and only British use that word.


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El Macho

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2012, 03:36:15 AM »
Nor does Chinese men attacking foreigners in Sanlitun.
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This past Wednesday night around 3am, City Weekend staffer Sarah Ting-Ting Hou was walking home alone from Sanlitun towards Xindong Lu on the small street that separates the Village South from the back bar street. Just before the police station, two Chinese men in their early 20s drove up next to her in a white Volkswagon. They proceeded to verbally harass her and one grabbed her through the open car window.
They got out of the car and tried to pursue her on foot, so Sarah ran to Nearby the Tree, where there were people sitting outside who told the two men to stop harassing her. The men went back to their car and sped down the street, parking the car at the intersection of Xindong Lu and exiting the car to wait for her.
Another expat couple agreed to walk with her to escort her home, and they turned left at the intersection in order to walk away from the men at the car. The Chinese men ran after them and first started punching the foreign man before throwing Sarah to the ground and kicking her in the face and chest. This went on for five minutes before a Chinese couple in a passing car heard the screaming and stopped to break up the fight.

Sanlitun is awful. The police should be doing more about the problems there – including those caused by foreigners and Chinese.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 03:46:32 AM by El Macho »

Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2012, 03:59:19 AM »
 aoaoaoaoao aoaoaoaoao
两只老外, 两只老外,跑得快,跑得快,
一个是老酒鬼,一个是老色鬼,真奇怪, 真奇怪

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NATO

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2012, 04:31:25 AM »
faith in humanity fading...

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kitano

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2012, 06:16:05 AM »
I think the police/city use this tactic in a lot of cities where you have 'no go' areas to keep all of the lunatics in one place and then when some drunk does get beaten up it's much easier for them to say 'they only had themselves to blame... etc


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xwarrior

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2012, 01:19:05 PM »
Quote
Stricter rules but China still welcomes foreigners
(Xinhua)
08:11, May 25, 2012  
BEIJING, May 24 (Xinhua) -- Foreigners worry that China is becoming less friendly towards them after Beijing police recently announced a one-hundred-day campaign to curb the illegal entry, residence and employment of foreign nationals.

However, the campaign should be no threat to foreigners legally residing in the country.

The campaign, which will run until the end of August, will include household checks in Wangjing, Sanlitun and Wudaokou, areas of the city known for high concentrations of foreign residents, as well as on-the-spot street checks that will require foreigners to present valid identification.


http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90882/7826537.html
I have my standards. They may be low, but I have them.
- Bette Midler

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Monkey King

Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2012, 02:01:12 PM »
Hmm, not sure if this is run of the mill violence or a high-water mark in anti-foreigner sentiment...I was in Sanlitun twice, in 2001 (holiday in China) and then in 2004 (living in Beijing), was pretty laid back then if a touch seedy, but seems like hell on earth now.

Reading the news is confusing:

It seems Yang Rui was insensitive, but shouldn't be sacked, but that Russian footsie player got what was coming to him but then again, foreigners should not be "excessively profiled".  So, it seems people can get angry (at foreigners) so long as they do it with maturity, but where does a Weibo campaign dedicated to cleaning up "Foreign Scumbags" fit in to all of this?

I was on a train at the weekend and a guy was in my (first class) seat.  He had no ticket but refused to move even when I spoke Chinese and showed him my ticket (I am confident in my ability to say "this is my seat" pretty clearly).  Should I have filmed the incident on my mobile and uploaded the video as an example of all Chinese people's behaviour? 

(Another (Chinese) passenger intervened on my side and then he moved, thanks guy, but shouldn't have been necessary...plus I am pretty sure filming or taking pictures would have escalated the situation in a bad way.)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 04:45:03 AM by MK »

Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2012, 03:39:58 PM »
Yeah, I just don't know. No one in Beijing has been hostile towards me, but then, I'm a woman and I wonder if it would be different if I were a guy. I don't go to Sanlitun except occasionally for dinner, it isn't really my scene. I think if anything though Sanlitun is much less seedy than it used to be, as there are now a lot of upscale shops and eateries in the area. The nasty bars and the drug dealers are still there, but they're no longer the only reason you might find yourself in Sanlitun. But sure, it is a bar district and fights happen. The girl who got beat up, that's surely not normal, but she was Chinese American and looked Asian, so it is hard to know the motives of the attackers. Did the situation escalate because of the foreign couple that intervened? It is hard to say.

At the same time, I do feel like people have been noticing me more, commenting more, but I'm not sure if that is paranoia or if there really is a weird vibe in the air. I have been trying to be aware but also not trying to ascribe motives to people that I wouldn't have ascribed before. I mean, I was never under the assumption that people who yell hello at me on the street are just being friendly, and I know that the anti foreign sentiment has always been there to a degree, I am just not sure if the degree is any greater now than it was a month ago.

Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2012, 03:56:45 PM »
This weekend, a good friend of mine was in a bar near Gulou and about 20 police officers rounded up all the foreigners and made them show documents. Two of them had perfect English and some kind of rehearsed script about how they were just trying to protect them and if they were foreigners in their country they would always carry their documents. Photocopies of documents were not acceptable and everyone without papers just stood there in the bar with all the police for several hours. My friend was able to call someone to pick up his documents and bring them to him, but I have no idea how long everyone else had to stand there. Apparently you need to carry hard copy passport, fec, and police registration with you at all times now. Blah.

Of course, this wonderful use of the local police force makes me even more upset when I read about all the crap in Sanlitun that apparently the police are too busy to deal with.

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Stil

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Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2012, 04:19:18 PM »
I was out this past weekend having a few with some friends. In the bar our group of 3 became a larger group of about 10 quickly. Now this was a mixed group of foreigners and Chinese. There were 3 Chinese girls in the group but they were not with any of the foreigners. Conversation got around to the situation in Beijing. All of the group knew about the UK guy and the Russian and Yang Rui but none of them (even the foreigners *sigh*) knew about the document checking policy.

The Chinese group talked adamantly about cleaning up the foreigner problem there. Interesting enough is that they have no problems with us foreigners here in Changsha. There are often some foreigners that behave poorly in the bar ( this year it’s a group of Brits, last year Americans, I'll try to make it Canadians next year) but they don't worry about it. They just say they are drunk, no problem. They consider the Beijing (and Shanghai) foreigners to be completely different. Not country related or even race related (to an extent).

I don't know the reasons for this as they just would say Beijing foreigners are different.

For me in Changsha, nothing has changed. Nothing different with the locals or police. No  unusual feelings of resentment, animosity etc. As far as I know, there has been no document checking. Nothing about it in the local press either.

It's just a story for us here and really not as interesting to most as the Yunnan cannibal.

Re: Members in Beijing, be careful out there!
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2012, 10:27:46 PM »
That's interesting that they think it is just a Beijing problem. As far as I can tell, the only difference between Beijing's foreigners and other places' foreigners is that there are more of us in Beijing.

In fact, the big city foreigners are far more likely to be the "right" kind of foreigners -- the ones working for foreign companies and thus contributing positively to China's economy. The expat package expats may or may not be assholes but they're certainly not "foreign trash" in the sense that they're residing here illegally doing illegal things. Beijing also has a lot of students, and tourists, but China gave them legitimate visas for those purposes. I think there are probably more foreign weirdos slipping through the cracks in smaller cities actually because in order to actually sustain any sort of reasonable lifestyle in Beijing you really cannot be a total waster. Unlike other parts of China, it isn't the sort of place where you can spend the week drunk, teach a part time class on the weekend and expect to earn enough money to get you drunk again the next week.

I sort of wonder, in the average Chinese person's mind, who these mythical illegal problem foreigners really are. The Russian guy was a totally legal worker -- no cleanup campaign would have stopped him from being a jerk. The British guy, as far as we know, was here on a tourist visa. Asshole tourists? Every country has those.

This is sort of what bothers me about this whole foreign "problem." It is one thing to say we're going to stop people from working on improper visas, but that doesn't seem to be what is actually being said here. There's some sort of nebulous definition of "foreign trash" or "problem foreigners" floating around that actually has very little to do with legal status, even if the authorities want to pretend it does.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 05:02:58 AM by The Local Dialect »