Strange reaction from the girlfriend

I wasn't expecting my random venting to prove so interesting.

No, I'm not infuriated or anything at elzoog. He talks the guy talk, I can appreciate that. He said nothing my friends haven't already told me during this past year while I was in Wuhan.

First, a few facts. Like I said in the original post, this is really only my side of it. Now, after the argument calmed down, she gave way and explained her reaction to my comment on having a "well-rounded" life. And it was this, to paraphrase:

"Fine. I got angry because you are coming back to be with me. When you said you wanted to find other people I got jealous."

If she had actually said so in the first place, we'd have never argued. I'd have immediately reassured her. Anyway, there are a few other points I need to touch on.

Presumably there's something genuine between the two of you. For sure, if it's just that she's cute and fun, then I guess you should call it a day.

Her reaction isn't strange. She's isn't 'wrong' or being unreasonable, at least not from her cultural perspective.

She wants security. If you can prove to her that you have a realistic and achievable plan for financially supporting her, and maybe her family, then she won't be so worried. However, hitching her fotunes to an itinerant English teacher is not such a good move for her. Her friends and family doubtless worry that you have no long term plan for your life. You're just taking things as they come and trying to enjoy life. Perhaps you might not even want to marry her in the end. You're just seeing how things pan out. If this is the case then you need to let her know, as she'll probably want to bail, however much she likes you.

Does your plan for financial security involves her going back to the USA with you and establishing a life there? Won't she miss her family? Do you really think that's what she wants? Do you want to stay in China? What job will you do? I'm not sure the English teacher salary is going to cut it, but it'd be an option if you can teach privates and start pulling in 15-20k a month.

Just ask her. Ask her what she wants.

She's stated that very very clearly. I'll even give you her exact words:

"我就要大房子  我就要名牌的车 我就要我的孩子像个王子一样的活着."

Which means:

"I want a big house. I want a brand name car. I want my kids live like princes."

My thoughts aren't too gathered here. I'll just hit on points as they come to me. Firstly, the issue of her only speaking about money. This is a bit hard to explain so stick with me. She's not a gold-digger. If she were, she wouldn't want to be with me. And, the fact that she wants a "big house" and a fancy car and her kids to live a pampered life is, I believe, not something most people would disagree with. Like I told her numerous times before, we do NOT disagree on the issue of money! I too want a big house, an expensive car, and I absolutely want one day to have my kids go to the best schools. So why do we argue?

Because it is ALL she talks about. For me, making money and being successful is a means to an end, so I can enjoy life. When she talks about it incessantly, it's as if money is a point in itself. That is what infuriates me. When I get annoyed with her, she always tells me the same thing. She explains how when she was little, she lived in a village until her parents took her to the city to give her a better life, how many people in China are poor, etc. Again, nothing I disagree with. But the point is.. she says this CONSTANTLY. Constantly!

Yes. Yes, I KNOW people in China are poor. I KNOW when you were a child your parents still lived in a crappy old villlage. I KNOW these things, you do not have to constantly tell me over and over like a broken record until my head wants to explode from hearing you talk about the same thing for the umpteenth time. Then I always tell her my schtick: "What in the world are you worried about? WHAT?! Am I poor? Am I lazy? Am I unmotivated? Am I homeless? Am I going to make you live on the street? What is your problem?"

As far as my plan for financial security for when she theoretically would come with me to the States, I plan on starting a career in logistics. In April I will take the U.S. Customs Broker License test. I already have an excellent graduate program picked out for when I've built up a couple of years experience. The field has a expected 24% growth rate till 2018. I'm not stupid and I'm not lazy either. I understand at this point I've only said this, I haven't DONE anything yet, but how can I when I'm supposed to be in China working a crappy job for the sake of being close to her?

She has said many incredibly strange things to me in the past. One day we were about to go to sleep. We're in bed, I'm winding down, about to fall asleep, when suddenly she starts in on this lovely story.

"Today I was on the bus and I saw this pregnant woman on there...." She gives a pregnant pause. "When I'm married I really, really don't want that kind of husband. If I have that kind of husband I'll divorce him." Another pregnant pause full of meaning.... Then she just keeps yapping and yapping about it. Pregnant women on the bus, pregnant woman on the bus, her husband doesn't make enough money, pregnant woman on the bus. I felt very uncomfortable. I asked her, in my usual exasperation tone... "WHY THE HELL would I let you get on a bus when you're seven months pregnant? WHY would that EVEN HAPPEN? Why are you even thinking about it???" Her response? Same old schtick: "Because here in China many people are poor and they don't have enough money." And, of course, I just look at her as if to say, "Yes... I know that. And?"

Look, I understand she's "worried" about security, but to constantly and ceaselessly harp about it this way makes me feel incredibly tired. It's not like she ever starved or had no clothes to wear or no place to sleep. She's not destitute. But she acts as if she is. Cue more endless talk about money. My god.

***

She did take the hard drive to three different places to have it repaired one day. It was during her noon class break. She walked a very long way to get to all three places, and that's after she had a three and a half hour track and field class in the morning (she's a gymnast). Oh, and it was while we had a huge argument and she had "broken up" with me. I thanked her profusely for trying. But, at the risk of sounding ungrateful, I would have been much more satisfied if she had given me a look of understanding when I said the music was lost instead of just staring at me blankly and then saying, almost as a concession, "Okay... I said, we'll have it fixed."

***

Is she controlling? Hm... I don't think so. But maybe I'm wrong. She doesn't ask me to do things. Anything. Even if it's something as normal as, "Hey, babe. My class got cancelled, wanna come over to my uni to have dinner with me?" She won't ask me! She said, "I don't like to make you do any thing." But... in a sense, I find that a bit distancing. It's not like I'm a stranger. You are free to request certain things.

***

Let's put all these things aside for a moment. I'll share something else with the good Salooners.

She and I met back in December. And our relationship has been incredibly tumultuous throughout. At one point, she was breaking up with me weekly almost by clockwork. Some reasons for why she blew up at me like dynamite, packed her things, and left:

- I asked her nicely to please throw out the empty soda bottles instead of leaving them on the table when the garbage can is directly next to her. I asked NICELY. With a smile on my face. Casually and non-threateningly. She said, "Why, you can't help me out a bit? If I have to do everything myself then why do I need a boyfriend?" Well, that wasn't quite the point I was making... but try reasoning with her. The next morning she "left me."

- I jokingly teased her that she picked out strawberries too slowly. "You said I'm slow! I know I'm slow, so what!" Gives me the silent treatment for an hour until I lose my patience, walk out of the house to take a walk and cool down, and then she's gone.

- Once she got pissed at me 'cause I asked her--NICELY--to please close the door a bit softly in the morning when she leaves for class 'cause it's heavy and the way she lets it glide makes a loud noise. Her response? "If you had a job and had to get up at 6 in the morning what would you do, huh?" So...me asking you to perform an act of common courtesy translates to me being too lazy 'cause I don't want to be needlessly woken up?

- We were watching a show ("Dexter," to be exact) and I expressed slight disappointment when she said she didn't feel like watching it any more. Not anger! I'm not insane. Just...a normal and fleeting expression of disappointment, as in, "Tsk..... sigh. Fine." Actually, the reason I was disappointed was 'cause of the rude way she abruptly got up and said, "I don't wanna watch anymore." I don't talk that way to people. Anyway, she got pissed. I tried to let it go and she kept pushing my buttons. I stepped in FRONT OF THE DOOR to have a cigarette 'cause I did not want to argue with her over something so ludicrous... and she locked the door. From the inside. At one in the morning. And put earplugs on, shut the bedroom door and went to sleep. And I banged and I banged until campus security came. And until my next-door neighbour came out and said, "Dude... enough. Sleep on my couch." She said she "didn't hear" 'cause when she's incredibly tired she sleeps very deeply. Yet people two buildings down heard it. She never apologized. Not once. Her reasoning? "You went outside so I figured you didn't need to come back in."

***

Fast foward to this summer, and I come back to New York early July. I fully expect that while I'm here we will have an argument on QQ and she'll tell me her typically cruel bullshit, "Go find another girl!" etc. and, in typical fashion, she'll delete AND block me off her QQ for good measure. And guess what? It doesn't happen. In fact, she turns into a complete puppy. She was already becoming increasingly docile before that time, though it didn't make a difference when the occasional blowout hit and she'd "break up" with me again. And now that I've been in New York for a month and a half, she is holding her breath for me to come back. It's just breaking my heart how much she misses me. She said she'll start cooking when I'm back so we won't get sick eating the crap from the street vendors, and she sends me pictures on QQ of food she cooked. She is a complete angel.

Ten hours from now I am scheduled to hop on an airplane-shaped time machine that will once again take me fifty years back in time until I reach the rapidly developing capital of Hubei province, Wuhan. Fifteen hours, and that's only the flight to Shanghai. She is literally jumping with excitement. The other day she woke up and texted me saying was crying 'cause she had a bad dream where I didn't go back. She knows I'm reluctant to go back. She's known it all along. And she's constantly tried to reassure me of how well she will treat me and the rest.

I am trying incredibly hard to be objective and I'm not succeeding. Do I love her? Yes, despite all the bitchy things she's done, I do. Yes, I even found a way to get over her locking me out in the middle of the night. Don't ask me how. But what bothers me is the suspicion that, even though her happiness to see me is very real, it won't change the FUNDAMENTAL TRUTH of the relationship, and that is this:

- We can't laugh together. Well, don't get me wrong, we do, but that is a result of things and situation that happen when we are together. If I make a joke or try to tease or amuse her somehow, she'll just ignore it. LITERALLY. Just...blank look. No reaction whatsoever. Look, I don't mean to sound insane analyzing things this way, but if it were me and someone made a joke I didn't find funny, I'd look their way, give a half-smile and go, "Hehe.. yeah? Cool." Isn't this sensible? She just has NO reaction. When I quizzed her, she said, "I don't find western humour funny. It's a cultural difference," she said ever so matter of factly. Great, so it's a cultural difference, therefore you cannot communicate in the manner of a socially sensitive person?

- If I go off on a tangent during a conversation (funny story, random fact, profound rumination, whatever), she stares me with an utterly dull look in her eyes. It's almost as if she's asking herself, "What the fuck is this guy talking about?" You gotta understand, I'm merely talking about the kind of random little twists in the conversation topic that people engage. That's what makes conversations interesting, isn't it? Then, when I'm done talking, she'll start in on a completely new topic. She'll just do this COLD. I'm done talking--bang! New topic. I just look at her in disbelief. "Hey, babe. Are you ignoring what I told ya...? hehe..." Her response is, "I heard you." Just..."I heard you."

There are just so many of these tiny little things that have gradually sapped my enthusiasm. Now I've been away for nearly two months and she is.... Sigh. If I tell her I am not getting on that plane in a few hours, I seriously feel like I will deeply, deeply hurt her. And I DON'T want to do that. Despite her fits and "money" talk, I do NOT believe she is a bad person. I think she's a very sweet, lovely little girl and all I ever wanted to do since the first day I met her was take care of her and give her whatever she wants and treat her like a princess. But there is a harsh edge to her personality and an impossible to ignore rift in our values that I just...don't know what to do.

it's now 6:30am EST and my flight departs 4:30pm. If I am to go to the airport, I"d have to leave 1pm. I don't want to leave her, she's just so.... She's the most beautiful girl I've seen in my life is what she is. And, despite how difficult she can be, fact is she truly loves me. But my heart keeps telling me this is NOT right. Then I argue with myself. "You're being a nitpicky, judgmental bastard, dude. This girl is trying her best for you, she's trying to change." Then I make myself feel guilty. But guilt is obviously not a motivator. But if I don't go back, then she or her friends or all of them together will surely start talking that typical Chinese bullshit about how, "Foreigners are no good because they don't want to marry a girl the moment they hold her hand" or whatever. I don't want to abandon her. I'm trying to be practical.

I feel ridiciulous saying this but I'm seriously at a loss. Plus delirious from not having slept all night. The most sensible thing for me to be doing right now would be looking for work in the field I want to get into, start gaining experience, save money for graduate school. Going back to China until April (when my Customs Broker exam comes up) to be with a girl I already feel I might have no future with seems like a waste of time. I don't know what to do. Though, I do know what elzoog would say.


Pardon the misspellings and swallowed up words. Really tired.

Wow! That's very illuminating.

End the relationship. Don't get me wrong. I don't think she's a bad person. She's just very insecure. She's caught in a cycle where the only way she knows how to get the things that she needs; love, a sense of self-importance etc, is by acting in a dysfunctional way. It's possible that one day she might break out of this cycle, but I'll be honest with you. It's unlikely, and while you're in a relationship with her perpetuating the cycle, nothing will change for her. I'm just making the point that I understand that in many ways she must be a lovely girl. However, at the moment she's incapable of being in a relationship - with anyone.

I'm afraid no good can come of this relationship. Ending it is the best thing you can do for her.

It's also what you should do for yourself. This relationship will never make you happy. This is the kind of situation that made people come up with cliches like 'an albatross around your neck' or 'she will suck the life out of you'. I'm afraid it's clear to me now that the problems here aren't really cultural, though I dare say that's in the mix.

There's no external amount of money that you can earn, no amount of love you can give, that will make this relationship work.

I think you probably know that already.

May i suggest you watch this Tony Robbins video. http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjkwMDc2NDcy.html

If you can get your girlfriend to watch it, even better.

It sounds like you're really conflicted Invictus.

Personally, I don't think this relationship is going to last. You can't build a lifetime together based on what you've told us here. It sounds like you have a strong impulse to rescue her, but once you've rescued her, then what? Your heart is saying there are huge dealbreaker problems and if you're honest with yourself, do you really think those issues are going to resolve? Is she ever going to relax about money? Is she ever going to make you laugh or have a meaningful conversation with you?

Honestly too, there are worse things in life than being a Chinese peasant or not having a car or being unable to dress in brand name clothes. I'm a Western woman and I rode the bus when pregnant with both of my kids, and I survived to tell the tale and didn't even divorce my husband (I find that pretty apalling to tell the truth). The thing is, you really can't predict how your life is going to go. Do you want a wife who will stick with you if you say, lose your job or if the stock market crashes or you become critically ill and swamped in medical bills, or do you want a wife who is going to ditch you the minute you don't meet the standards she's set. You can promise her you'd never "make" her ride the bus when she's seven months pregnant but you can't predict the future and if she needs money -- and not an insignificant amount -- to make her happy, as opposed to say, love, support, health, friends, or family, then that's a big warning sign right there. Of course no one wants to be destitute but people can be happy without huge houses or cars or brand name clothes. I do think we all want to enjoy life and that nice things are one way of enjoying life, but they're not a prerequisite to happiness either.  

I wouldn't say don't get on the plane, do it if you feel like you're not ready to say goodbye just yet, but I would definitely hold off on marriage or a greencard unless your gut feeling changes. Love sometimes is not enough to sustain a relationship and if you feel aready that this isn't going to work, after 8 months, it probably won't.

Welcome back to China for your last year here.  It's going to be great!  There'll be highs, there'll be lows, and given how hard it's going to be to get closure with this girl, those lows may well be deep and hard.

I think there's nothing particularly wrong with this girl.  She has a worldview extremely well suited to her environment, and it might be easier to see if you acknowledge that for Chinese there is no security, ever, except what you make for yourself out of other people.  Construction fails, objective results do not hold, land isn't owned, employment is never based on competency, even money in the bank can disappear because your family needs a loan, etc and so on.  Chinese build their real futures on the backs of the people they love.

Twenty years from now this kind of thinking is going to be laughed at, but it can't be now.  It can't be because how many actual alternatives exist?  Even for Chinese who go abroad, how many alternatives exist?  They don't acquire the ability to take stock of themselves alone.  They don't find value in independence and it can't really exist for them.  Their identity remains tied to...  China, I guess.

Or not. I don't know really.

Invictus, no one can tell you what to do, but out of the whole mesmerizing story you shared with us one thing really stick out.

But my heart keeps telling me this is NOT right.

I don't want to get all Oprah/new-agey on you, but intuition is a powerful thing and should never be ignored. What your heart (but really your mind) knows and thinks is what is is going on underneath your consciousness of guilt, and anger, and happiness and all that day-to-day stuff. So I think you maybe answered your own question.

Cut it now, your story believe it or not is pretty common.
She lives in a very usual type of delusional fantasy many people here have. It will not change for years until one day which could result in some kind of mental breakdown.

your story believe it or not is pretty common.

yeah, this all sounds familiar

Thank you, Mr. Benn, and everyone for some much needed advice in a time of admittedly foolish reluctance.

Messaged her on QQ a few hours ago. I opened with a few casual, non-threatening questions. "Do you think we have a communication problem?" She says, "Yes, but we'll get over that!" Eventually I asked her this: "If you don't care about the things I care about, if you think the things I say are uninteresting, and if I can't make you laugh, then do you think you'll be happy with me?" Which she avoided answering. Instead, she got angry. And angrier. Until she was just cursing up a storm. It's all "我靠" this and "我操" that. But she wouldn't answer my question. So I calmly asked again. Finally, the truth came out.

"If your hard drive is broken is there any use in me being sad?" This is just a way to avoid saying she doesn't give a shit. "Did I break it?" This is just ridiculous. I explain: "I don't want you to cry your eyes out, I was just wondering why you seemed so unemotional about it. Don't you think in a relationship, it is important for two people to care about what's important to their partner? That's my only meaning." "Didn't I take it to be fixed?" "Yes, you did. Thank you. I'm just wondering why you didn't seem to UNDERSTAND that I lost files that represented years of my own effort." She gets angrier. "I didn't like your music anyway! There's nothing special about it, it didn't move me!" Fair enough. But good luck explaining to her that this is really not the point. She continues, "Why should I care about it? That's YOUR thing. You have your OWN thing, we are not both the exact same people!" Again, not the point, but it's futile to explain to her. Then, this:

"Do YOU care about the things that are important to me?"

I say, "Of course I do. Why wouldn't I?"

Then she goes, "I want to buy things and I can't afford them" (this is another nauseatingly repeated mantra: "Wanna buy things, can't afford; I'm a student, don't have money; wanna get stuff, mom won't increase my allowance; other people have money to buy things, why don't I"). Eh, well... okay. Truth be told, I find this concern a bit frivolous. However, in the past, I did try to be supportive. "Baby, you're a student. It's normal, you don't need to rush. Wait till you graduate, you'll start making money. And I'll buy you stuff you want too, so don't worry about it." What I said made no difference. All she cared about was the "things" she wanted to buy. Then, this:

"What I like is diamonds."

Haha.

Now, see...that's when I realized something. This entire summer she purposely refrained from the incessant talk of money and materialistic garbage. I began to think she truly had grown during this time. But, in fact, she was merely hiding it 'cause she knew I found it distasteful. Nothing had changed and I was stupid to think it had.

She kept cursing from there until the inevitable, "Don't fucking come back!" came up. And then, "I'll go find a guy who can make me happy!" To which I replied, "Hope he can get you a big diamond."

That's that. I'm not going back. The reason I'm not going back isn't because we had some silly argument a few hours before my flight leaves, but because she basically confirmed to me everything I already suspected. The only thing that I, personally, cannot understand is, if she truly isn't interested in half the shit I say, if she truly doesn't care about the things that are important to me, and if she doesn't even think I am in the least bit funny, then WHY did she want me? Oh well. If this had happened while I was there, I'd be chasing her to get her back like a maniac right now. But the two-month long separation has given me time to reflect. Of course I'm sad, but I'd be a fool to go back just for her.

Sigh. I hope she will be okay in life. It's such a shame, really. Such a sweet, gorgeous little face, and such a personality.

BTW, I sound somewhat casual now 'cause I'm totally delirious. Tomorrow I might temporarily freak out.

~*~

TLC: You're so very right. I did want to "rescue" her.

Chinese build their real futures on the backs of the people they love.

This is seriously deep.

Wow. Hell of a thread. Take care Invictus, I'm sure you've got some glum days ahead.

Good job, your choice is the right one and the analysis your presented on your ex gf (as that is the way you should probably refer to her in your mind now) seems like it is spot on.
The reason I stopped being a social worker a few years back after 3 or 4 years at it was that I couldn't stop trying to fix or rescue people instead of empowering people and the realization that by the time they crossed paths with the service most were damaged beyond repair.
It's a sad reality that you generally can't save people, in the end your good intentions don't really do anything other than band-aid their problems or make them reliant on you.
Good advice and gentle (or not so gentle) prodding can only get someone so far, in the end 99% of people need to pull themselves out of their problems, if indeed they think they have any (which they rarely ever do)
At the end of the day the make up break up stuff is extremely annoying and should be a deal breaker for almost anyone.
Take some time, feel like shit and then later you will probably feel very relieved.
 

Wow. There are a lot of insightful comments on this thread. I don't disagree with any of them. They all capture valid viewpoints.

I think your ex-girlfriend is a normal Chinese person. That doesn't mean that all Chinese people are as she is. But her attitudes and actions are well within the range of normal for a Chinese woman her age.

As someone pointed out, some of her characteristics are quite well adapted to her environment. They might not fly so well in the West, but they're necessary in the Middle Kingdom.

You had to decide whether you could accept things as they were. You decided you couldn't.

You did the right thing!

P.S. A gymnast, huh? I can imagine why you stayed as long as you did ...  

 Invictus, you are correct, nothing will change the fundamental truth of your relationship! Your story brings back a memory of a situation between my husband and myself. He was diagnosed with bowel cancer and was scheduled for the surgery which ultimately led to his death. He said to me, "If anything happens and I become unable to care for myself, I am going to shoot myself"  Being the man he was, I knew that this was not just talk; he was a country man and used to using weapons. I asked him what he thought it would do to me to find the man I loved with the top of his head blown off? He said I'm sorry, I hadn't thought of that aspect, so I promise you that I will not do that, but I will find another way. No amount of begging on my part would change his mind. He understood that my love for him was so strong, that I would gladly care for him. His answer was that his love for me was so strong that he would not limit the rest of my life to caring for him. Fate intervened and he died from a clot to his lungs following surgery. To cut the story short, he had the strong feeling that something was going to happen, so before he went to hospital, unbeknown to me,  he did many things to ensure that I would not be left to deal with things. He also had our wedding photo printed and framed and he hid it for me to find if he did not come back; I found it two years later. Invictus, I tell you this to show you a little about the depth of true love. It goes far far deeper than a pretty face and good sex. I know that you will hurt until you find someone else, but the price you were thinking of paying was too high. I hope that you too find unconditional love.

Yowza!  I may have to rethink my views on this one. Chinese girls can be . . . excessively practical when discussing financial security, but she seems over the top.

Oh wait.  You said she's a gymnast.

It sounds like you made the right decision to break up. Good luck in the coming days, which will probably be tough, and I hope you're able to find work in NY that's meaningful.

I think you did the right thing.

Cultural or not (and while her attitude is certainly culturally acceptable in China, that doesn't mean that it is a healthy or good way to approach life. Plenty of Chinese people are quite miserable in the marriages they made because their partner ticked all the right boxes -- car, apartment, well paid job, willingness to commit, etc), the two of you sounded pretty incompatible. You can find a woman, even a Chinese woman, who will love you fully and without strings attached. If you think of all the marriages that have endured tragedy like war and poverty and loss ... and your girlfriend said she'd leave you if you let her ride the bus while pregnant. You made the right choice.

Good luck with your job search and with getting over the next short bit. It will be difficult but you have time and distance between you already which will make things a bit easier I'm sure.