Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Bar Room => The Bar (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: Ivyman on March 01, 2021, 04:09:33 AM
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Hi Everyone,
Since last year, things have been great for us foreigners. Coronavirus means we are in high demand, short supply. We get jobs easier, higher pay, and employers retain us more.
When will that all end? June? Or sooner?
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It's possible for foreigners to get in now, just with a quarantine on entry to China (and possibly a second quarantine at the destination city). That's enough to discourage some people from coming.
When will it end? That really depends on how the virus situation goes. Some countries are doing well enough that China may consider a travel bubble. Others are not doing nearly so well.
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Multivalent vaccines.
Plus some believable program of booster shots available inside China.
Mid-2022.
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Yes need an update on this. We are double Pfizered as is over 60% of the population here in Israel so... looking to travel.
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It's probably worth a quick visit to the Chinese embassy to get the absolute latest.
As I understand it, those who are fully vaccinated at least 2 weeks ago (not sure of the full list of acceptable vaccines) are entitled to skip quarantine, but do have to take 2 different types of tests no more than 3 days before flying to China.
If anyone has the latest info, please share.
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Feb 2022 - Winter Olympics Beijing
Late 2022 - CCP 20th Party Congress
And reportedly the national vaccination program is moving slow too.
One should probably place their bets on rear entry covid tests and three week false positive quarantine well into 2022.
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It will be nice when the vaccination rate speeds up. I think the problem in GZ will get it through people's heads that just because we have extremely few cases nationwide doesn't mean another big outbreak is impossible. GZ got caught in time, but it could happen again. Complacency is the enemy that took down so many countries that thought the issue was under control.
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Bumping this- how is the vaccination program going around the country? Can people chime in? Also will the lack of available teachers have any effect on things like upper age limit on visas? WE are in two minds as to whether it's even worth applying at this point.
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Vaccinations are available nationwide inside of China. To the best of my knowledge, foreigners need an appointment and locals will need at appointment at some vaccination sites, but not others. Right now, I don't see any big pushed to "Get vaccinated today!", must likely because it will take awhile longer to produce enough vaccine to get everyone one done. Instead, promotions are small and local so that supplies can keep up with demand.
The latest data I can find shows 872 million doses administered, but doesn't break that down to how many people are partially vs fully vaccinated. Assuming a target of 1.2 billion fully vaccinated (which would be a solid percent of the public) and 2 doses, we'll need to get 2.4 million injections done, so we're very roughly about 36% of the way there. Considering the number went up over 500 million in the last month, even if things level off, it won't take too many more months to get almost everyone fully vaccinated.
My best guess is that not all teachers will want to come back, so I expect you could probably find some openings.
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Hi again everyone
I am doing my visa now. I was contacted by a few agents and friends who I have on my WeChat who say that they can get me PU letters and so on. I don't have the visa yet so cross your fingers for me
Will keep you all updated
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agagagagag agagagagag agagagagag
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And then there was Omicron.
If Welcome mats do ever appear again, I kinda think it won't be until 2022 is over.
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If you can get a proper PU invite letter, then you can get the visa and get in (don't forget to pack several weeks worth of snacks and a few novels to read during your time in Q).
Unless there's some major breakthrough on prevention or treatment of Covid, I do agree we're looking at least a year for a return to what things were like in 2019.
Look on the bright side. At least it's not the centuries long struggle against massive waves of bubonic plague.
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I agree.
1. People from all over want to come to China.
2. I will tell them to get a PU letter. Isn't that the same as Chinese vaccine certificate from a doctor?
3. Do they need to be from a native country, or can my other friends come in, too?
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A PU letter is some form of formal invitation letter. It's needed to apply for a visa. The hiring organization needs to be properly certified to acquire foreign employees in order to arrange one.
Vaccination is a whole other ballgame. China does acknowledge some other vaccines, but the paperwork is a lot simpler for someone who's had 2 doses of the approved Chinese vaccines.
If it's specifically an English teaching position, it will be MUCH easier to get permission to hire someone from an English speaking country. It may be possible to get the invite letter for someone where English isn't the native language, but it will likely be a far more difficult process convincing everyone involved to agree to issue the invitation letter.
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Thank you very much.
This process is difficult for me to understand.
But, I am trying to get natives and non-native English speakers to China.
I applaud the Chinese government for managing everything.
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Focus on getting a couple of native speakers in first. Those will be more straightforward and give you an idea of how the system of invites and visas is currently running. Even then, some aspects of a new visa and permission to get on a plane to China will vary even within a country - based on which consulate the person goes through (not an issue if it's a smaller country with only an embassy and no consulates).
If you're successful with that, then if there's a place ready to consider non-native speakers, get ready for some really interesting paperwork.
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Thank you much. Escaped Lunatic, and everyone else who is active, you make this forum quite informative.
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The risk of detention will need to be lessened too. Right now, the risk of disappearing into "isolation" - quarantine + test positive + different regulations in different places..... Best case is you have two weeks quarantine when you arrive, but that best case is not guaranteed at all.
in my opinion, China has had it's opening phase. That phase was over about ten years ago. The kind of shutting down we've seen over the last two years is an acceleration of a trend.
Personally, I still have some things I want to do in China. But I'm starting to think even looking at a 2023 return might be ambitious. Depends on the 20th National Congress, I think. Zero Covid until then. Who knows what comes after
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No one is disappearing. Q hotels have at least adequate WiFi. Of course, having a phone with an international data plan is a good backup.
The time can and will vary. Right now, a few cities are experimenting with shortening the quarantine period. If some new variant pops up with a longer incubation period, then quarantine might be extended everywhere. In general, you can get a fairly good idea at how long Q will be by checking the absolute latest regulations for your arrival city a few days before getting on the plane. To be safe, the best bet is to count on all time of "home quarantine" or "community health monitoring" to really be more time in a Q hotel.
Yes, if you turn positive, you will be isolated (still with WiFi) until the local health department is sure you are cured. Since different people recover at different rates, there's no firm answer on how long a positive person will be spending in an isolation ward or Q hotel.
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No one is disappearing.
Everyone is disappearing.
From the U.S. to China: A 3-Month Quarantine Horror Story (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/12/world/asia/china-covid-quarantine-shanghai.html)
A lawyer flew home to China hoping to see his family for the first time since the pandemic began. Instead, he was trapped in three months of quarantine.
Q hotels have at least adequate WiFi. Of course, having a phone with an international data plan is a good backup.
The time can and will vary. Right now, a few cities are experimenting with shortening the quarantine period. If some new variant pops up with a longer incubation period, then quarantine might be extended everywhere. In general, you can get a fairly good idea at how long Q will be by checking the absolute latest regulations for your arrival city a few days before getting on the plane. To be safe, the best bet is to count on all time of "home quarantine" or "community health monitoring" to really be more time in a Q hotel.
Yes, if you turn positive, you will be isolated (still with WiFi) until the local health department is sure you are cured. Since different people recover at different rates, there's no firm answer on how long a positive person will be spending in an isolation ward or Q hotel.
It's not virus science that governs what happens to you in China.
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The good news is there's a test run of 10 days inbound Q time going in right now in multiple cities. If that works out well, we should see some more inbound traffic.
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10 days in Q I can understand. With periodic testing, that should be sufficient. 3 weeks or more? I doubt that is protecting anyone.
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Let's hope there aren't any weird people or strains of the virus that take more than 10 days to show.
If we can get Q down to 10 days, I'm hoping the "must fly from your home country" starts getting some exceptions. I've got a few places I'd like to go and I'd rather not have a mandatory detour to the USA in order to get back from every international trip.
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When getting sick is no longer immoral, that's when it'll be safe to go there.
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Being sick isn't immoral. Spreading a contagious disease when there are known methods to prevent the spread is immoral.
There's no safety issue going to China. There is a quarantine. If you turn positive while in quarantine, you'll be held until you are no longer contagious. Quarantines have been used around the world for centuries for a very good reason - if they are done properly, they can be very effective at preventing a disease from spreading. Try getting an active case of Tuberculosis and refusing treatment in the west if you want to see how quickly you can find yourself involuntarily isolated by the Health Department.
https://www.cdc.gov/tb/programs/laws/menu/emergencydetention.htm#:~:text=E.,threat%20to%20the%20public's%20health.
Mass lockdowns are what saved China when there was no vaccine and testing was still being developed. This also worked well in New Zealand and would have worked better in Australia if protocols had been observed. Restrictions and mass testing generally work faster and better. My city had a limited lockdown recently and crushed Omicron fairly quickly. A number of other cities did the same. Jilin and Changchun dropped the ball, but are on the fast track back to zero cases. I have no idea how Shanghai let things get as bad as they did, but the numbers are falling. Other countries can complain about temporary supply chain interruptions, but they are ignoring their own larger internal supply chain issues that have been brought on by having so many workers get sick from wave after wave of uncontrolled Covid.
Meanwhile, doctors are still studying the Covid-related alterations to grey matter in the human brain, even in asymptomatic cases. Maybe these changes are unimportant. Maybe they will lead to far worse problems a decade or two later.
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Nah man. Quarantine, lockdown, and treatment for illness are all risky in China. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
But then, China has always been a risky place to visit. And expat teachers have always accepted some safety and health compromises. It'd be super interesting to know how off-putting the current set of compromises really are. Maybe they aren't.
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I'd still like to go back to China but I just can't see it happening for a while. Considering the mess in in Shanghai I've written off 2022.
It's pretty much back to normal in Europe, you can travel easily with a vaccine, I saw that south Asia is opening up again as well. I suspect that the CCP kind of enjoys having an excuse
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Good news on a couple of fronts.
The experiment with 10 days in Q hotels must be going well. 7 days for inbound quarantine has been proposed (plus 7 of community health monitoring). Let's hope that quickly moves from proposal to experiment to policy.
And the bigger news. For the time being, Hong Kong is open to foreigners. From many places, the tickets are cheaper and there's no "must fly from your home country" rule. If you already have a Chinese visa this is another way to get to China. I know someone who's helped a few people do this, so it appears to be a valid option.
You would need to book your HK Q hotel in advance. Once out, you'll likely need one more day to do testing to get into China. There are two options. 1. Land crossings (which currently allow 800 people per day and there's a lottery - I have NO idea how many people are applying, so can't guess how many days you would need on average to score a ticket). Then you get a new round of Q in Shenzhen (check for latest info on how long this will be). 2. Go back to the airport and fly from HK to the closest mainland airport you can get to your destination and spend round 2 of Q there. Sadly, still no connecting flights from outside to China via HK yet, so there's no way to avoid HK Q.
It's not for everybody, but every new option cracks the door a little wider for those who need to get into China.