Raoul's China Saloon (V5.0) Beta
The Teachers' Lounge => School Reviews and Experiences (ON-TOPIC) => Topic started by: CaseyOrourke on October 17, 2011, 03:08:38 AM
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I have been working for Ameson for 2 1/2 months now in their TOEFL/AP program, so I figured I would report what has been going on. For the record I have had excellent support from the HR department in Nanjing. Everytime I text or e-mail them I get a timely response that they received it and I get an answer before COB. I have a Chinese colleuge who like me is employed by Ameson, but has the title of Head of the International Department. We have another teacher who acts as a liaision between us and the school; she takes no crap from the students and has been 100% supportive of our program.
I get paid on time through direct deposit with no problms. We have a really nice huge three bedroom apartment for just my wife rented my the school. We got an electric bill which had some charges from before we moved in. We called the landlord to ask what we should do and he said not to worry about it, that was between him and the school. So far the only time we have had to share is on Tuesday nights when they had a female teacher (Chinese female studying for her masters in English) from Shanghai spend the night. Her contract is done so she won't be coming back. The company sent a male treacher from Nanjing to take what was extra classes for me, but he is staying in the school teachers lounge.
We just finished TOEFL, now I'm teaching SAT writing to help them get ready for their SAT to qualify for an American university. Starting this week the company is sending a math teacher on Tuesday to teach SAT math. I don't know if it will be a male or female, but if it is female she may be staying with us and if male will probably be in the lounge. After SAT will be the AP program and I am looking forward to that because it means I can get back to teaching history, geography and English lit.
So far I can say working for Ameson has been a great experience. It is a great company and has been an extremely positive experience.
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That's great Casey. I also taught at an AP program for nearly 3 years and overall it was a very positive experience. These sorts of programs are growing in China and usually they offer a fairly attractive package for teachers with the right qualifications/experience so it is good to see that someone else is doing well at one of these schools.
Shoot, if your school was in Beijing I'd probably be looking into it!
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That's great Casey. I also taught at an AP program for nearly 3 years and overall it was a very positive experience. These sorts of programs are growing in China and usually they offer a fairly attractive package for teachers with the right qualifications/experience so it is good to see that someone else is doing well at one of these schools.
Shoot, if your school was in Beijing I'd probably be looking into it!
Ameson has an International Education program at Beijing No 4 High school, 2 West Huangchenggen, North Street, Xicheng, Beijing, Beijing.
The school websites are:
http://www.amesoninstitute.org/school-directory/beijing-no-4-high-school (http://www.amesoninstitute.org/school-directory/beijing-no-4-high-school)
www.bhsf.cn (http://www.bhsf.cn)
Check it out if you are interested, they are beginning to look at teachers for the upcoming school year.
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I'm in my second year with Ameson. Once I finished in Kunshan I was told initially I was going to be transferred to the program at Nantong High school, but we ran into some difficulties. It seems that at the end of the school year, Kunshan Senior High school, who Ameson had a contract with, terminated the lease on our apartment without telling the company or us. It was a crisis especially since Mrs. Casey was 5 months pregnant with Lexi at the time. Both of us (Me and the company) had to jump through our respective backsides to find someplace for us to stay and to secure our household goods. Finally the company decided we could store our stuff in the room in the teachers dorm reserved for Ameson's Chinese teachers for the summer and later once we secured housing at my new assignment we could contract movers to move our stuff.
Nantong wanted me to do a demo class, but because of the housing crisis I was unable to get free to do so. The wife decided we would spend the summer up in in our house in her home city of Yanji where family could help us out. It was there that I learned I would be going to No. 10 Middle school in Suzhou, Jiangsu.
Frankly I couldn't be happier. I'm one of five foreign teachers. we all teach varied subjects. I teach history and human geography, another teaches calculas and stastistics, another teaches literature, one teaches physics and the other teaches writing. The principal and head teacher are absolute gems. When I needed time off for Lexi's birth without even asking, the principal told me to take the entire week because something like that was to important not to be there. My desk is in the same office as the principal and head teacher and I am their go to guy when they need advice on proper English wording, American etiquette and to also improve their English. For a while I was teaching 11 classes a week (5 human geography, 3 US History and Culture and 3 TOEFL Speaking), but when the students of another chinese teacher, who was teaching SAT writing, was finished and the students were taking their SAT's, they gave her my TOEFL classes and I dropped to 8 classes. When I am not teaching, I'm not required to be in the office unless I want to be. So when Mrs.Casey and Lexi do arrive, I'll be spending my free time being a daddy. I learned that after the winter break I'll be picking up 2 more classes in a new program called "Homeroom." None of us know exactly what it entails, but I hope to find out soon. I also get to write my own tests in all my classes and I get to have some fun with the questions.
This time housing is not problem because the first week the head teacher and I looked at lots apartments till I finally settled on 2 BR on the 19th floor of a brand new highrise (which is a story in itself). I'm the first person to live there so all the appliances were just out the box and it included a brand new LCD TV. Time and time again the ladies in the office tell me they appreciate the fact I'm so polite and so helpful around the office. There has been a few instances I've had to cover a few classes because of oher teachers being sick, but I figured that since they were willing to cover me for that week I was gone, it's not that much to complain about.
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Their website says they only pay 5000 RMB per month. And its classed as 'a stipend' rather than a salary or wage.
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And 25 hours of 'educational activities' per week sounds like a big rip-off. Someone behind the scenes will be making good money out of it!
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Their website says they only pay 5000 RMB per month. And its classed as 'a stipend' rather than a salary or wage.
And 25 hours of 'educational activities' per week sounds like a big rip-off. Someone behind the scenes will be making good money out of it!
I started last year and was making 10K a month teaching anywhere from 9 to 15 hours a week. This year I'm making 11.5K teaching 3 hours history and 5 geography.
This is from the website, but I don't know anybody who started below 10K
Q: What is the salary range?
A: Salary range for ESL teachers is monthly between 7,000 – 12,000 RMB (equivalent to 1,000 – 1,800 US$) before tax, for AP Subject teacher between 12,000 – 20,000 RMB (equivalent to 1,800 – 3,000 US$) before tax. A decent life in China, however, would cost around 2,000 RMB (approx. 300 US$) per month for living as you only pay for the food, transportation, clothing and entertainment. Mobile communication costs around 50 RMB (7 US$) per month. Thus you can save as much as 2700 US$ per month.
There was an announcement that with the new contracts, there is a new pay schedule and upgraded benefits package.
http://www.ameson.org/index.php (http://www.ameson.org/index.php)
http://www.ameson.org/ahsp/en/ (http://www.ameson.org/ahsp/en/)
ok, update... new program, A Year in China.
http://www.ameson.org/ayc/ (http://www.ameson.org/ayc/)
the 5000 a month stipend is offered to college educated professionals who are not regular teachers, the chance to come to China for a year and teach. They are not considered regular salaried teachers. I don't know where they got 25 hours, because I don't work anywhere near that. If they like the job, then the next year they can apply to be a regular teacher.
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I am familiar with Ameson in Beijing (although I haven't worked for them) and what Casey says lines up with what I know of them. I don't know any schools that would dream of paying less than 10K a month for the kind of work Ameson would expect you to do.
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A decent life in China, however, would cost around 2,000 RMB (approx. 300 US$) per month for living
ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
I looked at Ameson before and chose not to apply to them because of the ludicrous statement above and their low, low salaries. If the hours/week requirement is low, though, it might be a good gig. How many mandatory hours in the office do you have each week?
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A decent life in China, however, would cost around 2,000 RMB (approx. 300 US$) per month for living
ahahahahah ahahahahah ahahahahah
I looked at Ameson before and chose not to apply to them because of the ludicrous statement above and their low, low salaries. If the hours/week requirement is low, though, it might be a good gig. How many mandatory hours in the office do you have each week?
I'm in my second year, I'm making 11,500 RMB plus 2,000 housing allowance. I should be getting a new contract offer in a couple of months. As is, Mrs. Casey saves @ 5,000 a month, and we still can maintain a mostly western lifestyle.
I can't speak for the other programs in Ameson, but in Suzhou we really don't have any mandatory hours, other than class time. Most of the foreigners show up about an hour or so before their classes and might leave soon after they finish their paperwork. The only reason I spent so much time in the office was because Mrs. Casey was still in NE China with the baby, but now that they are in Suzhou, I'll be spending more time home, and my boss is cool with that.
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No office hours is ++good. At my current gig we've got a ton of them…enough that I'm getting close to quitting over them.
No disrespect intended about the salaries (my intended meaning was low low salaries listed on the website), I just hate employers who claim that a ludicrously low amount of money (2,000RMB, 1,000RMB, 10RMB/month) allows for an amazing standard of living in China. It's simply not true unless you're in a third-tier city and/or live like a migrant worker.
What you probably was looking at was this, which is offered to people who are not regular teachers.
http://www.ameson.org/ayc/ (http://www.ameson.org/ayc/)
Teach for a year in China
A Year in China (AYC) is designed for college educated, open-minded people seeking to expand their horizons and enhance their careers. Any native English-speaking degree holder is welcome to apply. Spanning one academic year, AYC is designed to enrich career development and personal growth. Immerse yourself in the heart of Chinese society. Reap benefits for future employment in China, or enhanced opportunities in your country and around the world, Learn Mandarin – an asset in business, government and non-profit organizations. What you learn in China can also enhance academic opportunities at graduate schools upon your return. In addition, you will have the ability to travel and experience the vibrancy of China, with plentiful flex and holiday time. Buffering your experience will be comfortable housing within safe environs.
If you are already teaching in China, you would fall into another category and be offered a regular position at a much higher wage.
I agree that some statements are ludicrous and dated, but it also depends on where you are. In NE China the average wages I usually see range anywhere from 5000-8000 RMB a month, which is why I like working in the Shanghai area more.
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Our head of HR called me today and offered a me a new contract for the coming school year. I can stay in Suzhou, which thrills my principal. It offers me a huge pay raise (@4,500 RMB a month) and a 15% signing bonus. I was so floored I said yes before calling Mrs. Casey. When I did call her she told me to take it, so it looks like I'll be staying another year.
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Congrats on the great raise Casey, that's awesome for you.
I don't know what info people are looking at saying the salary is low. Ameson's site, because if you're looking at the American High School program, clearly states up to 12K a month for ESL teachers and up to 20k a month for subject teachers, which is pretty standard for work in this sector.
http://www.ameson.org/ahsp/en/teachers/teacher-faq
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Congrats on the great raise Casey, that's awesome for you.
I don't know what info people are looking at saying the salary is low. Ameson's site, because if you're looking at the American High School program, clearly states up to 12K a month for ESL teachers and up to 20k a month for subject teachers, which is pretty standard for work in this sector.
http://www.ameson.org/ahsp/en/teachers/teacher-faq
True, but who you going to believe, a post on a website or somebody actually with the company who is giving up to date information.
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Congrats on the great raise Casey, that's awesome for you.
I don't know what info people are looking at saying the salary is low. Ameson's site, because if you're looking at the American High School program, clearly states up to 12K a month for ESL teachers and up to 20k a month for subject teachers, which is pretty standard for work in this sector.
http://www.ameson.org/ahsp/en/teachers/teacher-faq
True, but who you going to believe, a post on a website or somebody actually with the company who is giving up to date information.
No, I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying that what you're posting here about salaries is consistent with what Ameson is posting on their website. Other people are saying there are "low low salaries posted on the website." People must be looking at an outdated site, because 12k for ESL and 20k for subject teaching isn't really "low," especially for a 2nd tier city. And you're a subject teacher, right? Doing mostly social studies courses? So I would imagine you're not getting paid on the ESL teacher scale.
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A decent life in China, however, would cost around 2,000 RMB...
...the students you will be teaching are among the best and the brightest in China...
...Teachers work in garden-like senior high schools with more than 100 years history...Classes operate like conventional American high school classes...
The salary looks good and I am sure it is a great place to work but they are gilding the lily a bit with some of this stuff, surely?
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Well, to play devil's advocate, I teach some students from Beijing No. 4 High School and that school's kids ARE among the best and brightest in China. Every year they have a couple of Ivy Leaguers and the school is quite famous. Ears perk up when I mention it and name dropping that school never fails to impress local Chinese people.
Can't speak for the rest of the schools on the list, but checking them out, most of them do not seem too shabby.
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Wow, OK, sorry that was my cynicism showing after experiencing how foundation year/joint venture programs etc usually work.
I suppose one of the main the differences lies in that these students are opting out of the education system here BEFORE the Gaokao, not after...
The schools do look nice too.
BTW, do they only accept teachers from the U.S.? It kind of looks that way from the website.
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Wow, OK, sorry that was my cynicism showing after experiencing how foundation year/joint venture programs etc usually work.
I suppose one of the main the differences lies in that these students are opting out of the education system here BEFORE the Gaokao, not after...
The schools do look nice too.
BTW, do they only accept teachers form the U.S.? It kind of looks that way from the website.
The school I work it is similar to the gardens in the area (Humble Administrators, Lion Forest and Master of Nets)
I know we have teachers from England and Australia. Teachers just need to be native English speakers and have a 4 year degree
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Congrats on the great raise Casey, that's awesome for you.
I don't know what info people are looking at saying the salary is low. Ameson's site, because if you're looking at the American High School program, clearly states up to 12K a month for ESL teachers and up to 20k a month for subject teachers, which is pretty standard for work in this sector.
http://www.ameson.org/ahsp/en/teachers/teacher-faq
True, but who you going to believe, a post on a website or somebody actually with the company who is giving up to date information.
No, I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying that what you're posting here about salaries is consistent with what Ameson is posting on their website. Other people are saying there are "low low salaries posted on the website." People must be looking at an outdated site, because 12k for ESL and 20k for subject teaching isn't really "low," especially for a 2nd tier city. And you're a subject teacher, right? Doing mostly social studies courses? So I would imagine you're not getting paid on the ESL teacher scale.
Sorry, I was was meaning to agree with you. My comment was supposed to be aimed at the critics, but it looks like I massed the mark.
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No worries Casey!
MK, this sort of thing isn't really the same as a foundation program. They are "international departments" within public high schools.
Basically, the deal is that every year there are high achieving students who opt to to America for college. These kids could very well be admitted to high ranking Chinese colleges, but they don't want to stay in China. Having these kids who are planning on going abroad in regular Gaokao classes creates issues for the public schools, and for the kids. Kids who do not need to take the gaokao basically waste three years if they stay in normal public school classes. They also are a distraction for the kids who ARE taking the gaokao, because often they need special permission to go off campus for study abroad specific coursework. So what public schools have decided to do is split these kids up and put them in their own classes. Some public schools have had outside companies (like Ameson) come in and offer international classes (taught all in English, for three years) for these kids. Usually these classes start off with TOEFL and SAT prep, and build up towards AP stuff. AP US History, AP European History, AP Physics, AP Chemistry. Kids who are part of these programs usually pay tuition which higher than what they'd pay normally at public school, but also not exorbitant. Their schedule is set by the program and they are required to take the course load that the program sets.
Other public schools simply split the kids up and then deal with them internally. The school I mostly work for is like this. I teach the kids AP US History and AP Language and composition, but my kids are not required to take my classes -- the ones who wanted the classes paid tuition and I come in and teach them. Their lead teacher is supportive of our classes but she does not require the kids to take them and the students arranged the classes on their own (aside from my classes they've arranged some cooking and calligraphy classes for themselves as well). The kids who are not in my AP classes are basically on their own. Some of them go off campus for SAT/TOEFL tutoring (although we're past that season right now).
Some other public schools set up in-house international programs without the help of an outside company, usually hiring an experienced program manager who is an overseas returnee or foreign born Chinese. If the school is offering a full course-load, they'll charge tuition. If they're just splitting the students off into a class and letting them fend for themselves, they don't charge extra tuition. In all three cases, the students are originally accepted into the main public school, and then at some point, usually in their 2nd year, split off into international class/program once they've made the final decision to study abroad.
If you're an experienced teacher and can convince an area school to give you a shot, this is really an excellent sector to get involved in. The work is very rewarding. The students are capable and mostly motivated (you always have a few duds, but that's true everywhere). I have a student this year who got into to Yale. Others going to Claremont-McKenna, Pomona, Notre Dame, Northwestern, William and Mary, Barnard ... these are not your typical "study abroad because I'm useless and can't do anything else" type kids. Lots of top Chinese students, students whose parents are academics and politicians and professionals, don't even think twice about going abroad. They see Chinese education for what it is and want no part of it. They are, by and large, really great kids to teach. These sorts of schools pay well, give you interesting teaching opportunities, and have a vested interest in holding on to quality teachers (these top students will chew you up and spit you out if you're a hack), so they do not screw around. I've been doing this kind of work for 5 years now and won't go back to any other kind of teaching in China.
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Really interesting and useful to know, cheers LD.
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these top students will chew you up and spit you out if you're a hack
interesting, could you tell us some more?
what do you mean by hack exactly? and how do they chew you up?
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LOL Fozz, are you messing with me, or do you really not have that word in Leprechaun Land? Hopefully you're being serious because I'm just TLDR-ing all over this thread now. bibibibibi
A hack (in American English anyhow) is someone who doesn't do their job well. We use it for writers a lot, but you can use it for anything. I suppose the implication is that people are doing a job that requires a certain amount of skill, yet the skill level just isn't there.
What I mean is that when you're teaching substantial courses and the students have very concrete goals, there is a level of accountability required of the teacher. And top students are pretty good at figuring out which teachers can teach. They're a savvy bunch. A lot of them have participated in summer programs in America, at schools like Columbia or Stanford, some have done a semester abroad. They aren't impressed by just having a foreigner in the room, they aren't interested in whether you can use chopsticks or not, and they don't want to hear you sing. Know what I mean?
The stakes are pretty high for these kids. They don't all come from terribly wealthy backgrounds, they've forgone the gaokao, so they're kind of locked into the idea of going abroad, and since they're high achievers, they don't really want to end up going to a second rate school. The stakes are high for the schools too, as the success of these programs depends largely on how successful the students are. In my experience, these schools will pay good money for experienced, reliable teachers who can produce results.
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This is an interesting one.'Good' Chinese students sometimes make pretty 'bad' students in a western uni for example. Look at the differences in expectations in terms of self study, group work, critical thinking etc. Being a teacher bridging this gap can be difficult.
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Definitely. Casey can probably back me up on this, but in my classes we do a lot of work on writing skills and critical thinking, and also we do a lot of reading (that's one of the killers for these kids too -- they are not at all used to the amount of reading Western professors assign). I also teach them about academic dishonesty and try to scare the piss out of them the way my high school teachers scared the piss out of me.
For some the transition is tougher than for others. In my experience the girls, for whatever reason, have an easier time of it than the guys. But ... drifting off topic here. :)
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LOL Fozz, are you messing with me, or do you really not have that word in Leprechaun Land? Hopefully you're being serious because I'm just TLDR-ing all over this thread now. bibibibibi
Sorry, no, I was being serious, I just didn't express myself all that well - what I meant was what counts as a hack in your teaching context, and from you answer above I think I understand.
Cheers!
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Definitely. Casey can probably back me up on this, but in my classes we do a lot of work on writing skills and critical thinking, and also we do a lot of reading (that's one of the killers for these kids too -- they are not at all used to the amount of reading Western professors assign). I also teach them about academic dishonesty and try to scare the piss out of them the way my high school teachers scared the piss out of me.
For some the transition is tougher than for others. In my experience the girls, for whatever reason, have an easier time of it than the guys. But ... drifting off topic here. :)
I agree about the girls being easier to teach. Most of my boys are currently fixated on basketball, but that is another story. Another killer is convincing these kids it is OK to ask questions or to have an imagination. It has been so ingrained in them to just sit there and listen to the teacher and copy whatever is written down in front of them.
Senior one is by far my best group of students. I'm emphasizing the importance of good note taking and how studying them will improve your test scores.
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Wow, OK, sorry that was my cynicism showing after experiencing how foundation year/joint venture programs etc usually work.
I suppose one of the main the differences lies in that these students are opting out of the education system here BEFORE the Gaokao, not after...
The schools do look nice too.
BTW, do they only accept teachers form the U.S.? It kind of looks that way from the website.
The school I work it is similar to the gardens in the area (Humble Administrators, Lion Forest and Master of Nets)
I know we have teachers from England and Australia. Teachers just need to be native English speakers and have a 4 year degree
Into my third year. I quoted this post because this year we have a teacher from Italy who teaches TOEFL and AP Italian.
I'll probably get a new contract offer early next year, but after the huge smog attack earlier this month, Mrs. Casey is getting disgusted with the land of her birth and wants me to seriously consider looking for a position elsewhere. I've adopted a wait and see attitude. if I can't find anything and will have accept a new contract, I might consider sending her and the baby back to the US to stay with family while I do the year with a trip back for CNY. It won't be much different from the year I did back in the military where the wife at the time stayed in the US while I did a year remote tour in Korea.
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nvm
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Here for another year. Got offered a new contract with another raise with the housing allowance. Mrs. Casey and I decided that I will do this year and next, take what we have saved, sell both her houses in NE China and head back to the states, buy a house and settle down. Baby Casey (F) will be @4 and should be ready for preschool.
TTYL Y'all
Casey