z visa and passport

I hope someone can shed some light on this.  My contract will end Jan. 20 after we shortened it from one year to one semester recently.  I am not happy with my school and they agreed to shorten it.  I signed a new short contract.  They also want to cancel my z visa and make it a new shorter one.  I dont trust them doing this.  I want to keep it because its good till June 30.  I am planning on very politely asking them if I can keep it, or even offering the 800 rmb that they paid for it in return for keeping it.  If they say no, I may just refuse to give them my passport.  My question is, if I dont give them the passport can they still cancel my z visa which is in the passport?? 
Thanks.   

Depedns on their GuanXi...

It is not a Z-visa problem - that expired 30 days after you entered China.

I think it relates more to your Residence Permit. That was issued on the basis that you had an employment contract for a year - and that was issued on the basis that you had been issued with a Foreign Expert Certificate.

Should, for any reason, your employment is ended before the contract date, your employing authority is meant to notify the PSB.

One answer I have seen to this question is:

Each and every residence permit is issued based on certain conditions. In the OP's case, his residence permit was issued for employment purposes and it is clearly stated in the terms of the residence permit. The employment must be with the same employer who provided the documentation for approval of your residence permit.

If the OP leaves his job, he is unemployed and his residence permit can be invalidated by the Public Security Bureau no matter how much time is remaining. It has happened many times before. Whether or not they will do that in OP's case is up to the PSB.

The new employer cannot easily apply for a new work permit / residence permit for the employee unless there is a letter of release from the previous employer. More often than not, if you have no release letter you must first cancel your existing residence permit and obtainanother type of visa. You then go through the process of obtaining a new "Z" visa which often entails leaving the country to apply.

Once you have the new "Z" work visa, you can, for the second time, go through the process to have that converted to a residence permit for the purposes of employment exclusively with your new employer.

 

It is reasonable that the school doesn't want you hanging around China on the residence permit that they sponsored. As long as you're on that residence permit, the school is technically responsible for you.

Most schools will at the very least want to change you to a travel (L) visa. If you don't turn in your passport they can still cancel your residence permit simply by informing the PSB that you're no longer working there. If they do that then when you try and leave the country it is quite possible your residence permit will turn up as expired, and you don't want that to happen. The best thing to do is to line up a new job before you leave, get a letter of release, and get your new employer to sponsor new documents.

Actually, what I've always gotten is that an employer CAN'T revoke your Residence Permit unless they have your passport. You know how it is in China...nothing's official without that red stamp...   (Maybe this has changed recently? )

I like your plan of being reasonable...offering to pay the balance etc.

Have you found another job yet? If not, try to do so ASAP. It will help. You can tell the school that you have another job, and if they'll provide you with the Release Letter you need you'll be off their Permit very quickly.

Bear in mind that if you have a valid Permit and a Release Letter, you can simply transfer the Permit to your new employer very easily. But if they cancel your Permit or bump you back to something like a Tourist Visa, you'll have to start the whole process all over from square one.

So, go on being reasonable...but keep your passport safely in your kung-fu grip at all times. You CAN refuse to turn over the passport to the school...but NOT to a police officer.

My question is, if I dont give them the passport can they still cancel my z visawhich is in the passport?? 

The problem relates to cancellation of a Residence Permit when the holder has retained his passport and there is no indication of a cancellation.

Another guy in another place had this problem:

I just finished my 3 years in Shanghai and returned my Work Permit Booklet to my employer and he canceled it. As I got transferred rather fast I never gave my Passport to the HR Office.

He mentioned now to me in a email that they will cancel my Resident Permit that is valid until 2010 online. So I am wondering now if they can do so indeed and if yes, how can I find out whether it is canceled or not ?

The general concensus was that:
- while an employer could cancel a Work Permit on-line this could not be done with regard to a Residence Permit
- he should not worry as it was such a bureaucratic hassle for the employer and PSB to cancel a Residence Permit it was not going to happen.
- many have been told by an employer that they will cancel the Residence Permit but have had no problem leaving or re-entering China

The outcome?

I just heard back from our Regional HR as well as our Office in Shanghai. You can indeed cancel a Resident Permit without the Passport. And so they did. I received an email today from HR with an attached official Ministry Document stating that my work & resident permit have been canceled.

I should now go the nearest PRC Embassy or Consulate in the Country where I live in so I can get a "official Chop" to cancel it in the Passport as I can not re apply for a L Visa in the future without the Cancellation Chop.

So, I have two completely different replies about this.  One says yes, it can be canceled online without the passport in hand to stamp, etc.  The other says no, you believe it cannot be canceled without handing over my passport.  I guess there are many different ideas and opinions on this subject and its hard to know which is true and what will happen. Right??

There is no confusion in my mind - the PSB can cancel your Residence Permit and they do not need to be in possession of your passport to do that.

Nothing is clearer than what I quoted before:

Each and every residence permit is issued based on certain conditions. In the OP's case, his residence permit was issued for employment purposes and it is clearly stated in the terms of the residence permit. The employment must be with the same employer who provided the documentation for approval of your residence permit.

If the OP leaves his job, he is unemployed and his residence permit can be invalidated by the Public Security Bureau no matter how much time is remaining. It has happened many times before. Whether or not they will do that in OP's case is up to the PSB.

If any confusion exists it is because many employers do not inform the PSB that the position has terminated. As a consequence some teachers have been able to see out the full period of the Res Permit without any action being taken.

You have to remember that the consquences may be delayed. A friend of mine resigned from a job after one month, with the mutual agreement of the college,and worked at another college for the rest of the year. The new college said that they would do all the paperwork when his Res Permit expired.

When it came time to renew the Residence Permit both he and the college were called in to the PSB to explain why the old Res Permit had not been cancelled and a new one applied for 10 months previously. Large fines were discussed and he had to write a letter of explanation and apology.

Another consequence could arise if you left the country for a short period (eg holiday, trip to HK). Assuming that the employer notified the PSB of any early termination, you might find that, on returning to mainland China, your Res Permit has in fact been cancelled and you can not re-enter.

My understanding is the same as xwarrior's. I know someone who I am pretty certain had this happen, but with a student visa (I could be mistaken because this was quite a few years ago, but this is how I remember it). The guy had a student visa, stopped going to classes, the school cancelled his visa by simply informing the PSB that the guy was no longer a student. It was, if I remember correctly, part of a larger crackdown by that school on people using student visas simply as a way to stay in the country and not for actually studying anything. He didn't know this, tried to leave the country, and was fined for being on an expired visa.

I think what's missing here also is that whatever your chances are of getting away with it, really you're not entitled to keep your residence permit sponsored by a particular employer if you're not actually working for that employer anymore. This isn't the school trying to pull anything shady or untrustworthy, they're trying to cover their asses because they can't have foreigners running around the country doing who knows what when they're still technically responsible. It wouldn't fly in any other country (if someone sponsors my visa to say, work or study in the States, I can't just take that visa and go do something else entirely) and it doesn't fly in China. If the school decides to give you an extra month on your residence permit to go traveling or to give you some time to find a new job, that's their call, but I think expecting to keep the residence permit for an extra 5 months after you've stopped working there is a bit unreasonable.

Ask if they will let it run to the original expiration date.  If they agree, cool.  If not, they CAN have it canceled, but MIGHT not go to all the bother to do so.

If they don't agree, it's probably safest to make a run to HK and grab yourself a tourist visa so that you can spend another month in country looking for new jobs.

This subject has been discussed ad infinitum in several places. In such instances of uncertainty, I believe a person should just do the right thing. Bottom line, it's also smarter. The RP loses its validity after a teacher leaves the sponsoring school. Period. So a person should find another school or obtain an L or F visa. A trip to HK might not be necessary. Otherwise, the situation might sooner or later bite you on the ass where you don't want to be bitten.